Climate Crisis: Are we doing enough?

[icowden]

Bold claims, and I'd be impressed if they can pull it off but I can't see how it's going to be possible without doing some serious damage to the surrounding area in the first place.

Well - it's just sand innit..

 

[BoldonLad]

https://themindcircle.com/the-line-...ql_Tm-2sbOpGXIdbFZ7lXqcoBb-BixWIxQ_HUpjExQ0V0

Apparently work is underway on The Line, which will:

The project, which is currently under construction in Saudi Arabia in Neom, Tabuk, will have no roads, cars, or emissions. It will run on 100% renewable energy and 95% of the land will be preserved for nature. People’s health and well-being will be prioritized over transportation and infrastructure, unlike traditional cities.

Bold claims, and I'd be impressed if they can pull it off but I can't see how it's going to be possible without doing some serious damage to the surrounding area in the first place.

Presumably, that is those people who are not executed or murdered by the state for some reason

 

[stowie]

And the lobby against the ULEZ showed statistics that showed that car pollutions wasn't or had a minimal effect. Lies, damn lies and statistics..

With some exceptions, the lobby against ULEZ is generally composed of conspiracy fans (the crossover between anti-ULEZ and anti-vaccination is an interesting one), far right who hate Khan for reasons other than concern over ULEZ and Tories who sniff a potential wedge issue in their desperation as oblivion becons at the next election.

The "data" produced by anti-ULEZ (and anti-LTN) groups is at best, an overstretch or misrepresentation of studies. As an example - the fact that Waltham Forest is very high on the PM2.5/10 league table is heralded as proof their LTN schemes don't work. Except PM is a stable pollutant that can be blown big distances. East London boroughs are high in this league table. Because the prevailing wind blows in that direction. Plus there are a number of really heavy roads running through some of these boroughs (A406/A12/A13) which generate a lot of pollution. And they haven't had LTNs.

Or it is just made up crap masquerading as "common sense". "Traffic is worse on the main roads" - data doesn't support this? Well it is common sense innit?

There are people with real concerns - for example LTNs don't really address main road NOx pollution even if the data shows it doesn't make it worse. That is probably true, but the issue was there before and the answer is unpalatable to the anti-ULEZ crew.

These groups thrive on the gish-galloping method of throwing out so much stuff that the actual data and made up bullshit get inextricably linked and people just believe they cannot trust anything. The Putin method as it were.

Now i'm the last one to say which one of the two is correct, i think they are both correct by measuring in a slightly different way

As above. Some of the data is correct. Some is made up bullshit. Both are stirred together. Most often, data is used to extrapolate conclusions that are simply not supported by that data.

however Population density is an consequence not an cause, so if you remove all ICE what gonna be the next step? Because the cause sure as hell isn't being addressed judging by the amount of newly build mega flats off mediocre quality at best, for a super premium price, so the one building it can keep on sponsoring the tories.

Not sure what you mean? population density is a consequence of the ULEZ?

 

[matticus]

Or it is just made up crap masquerading as "common sense". "Traffic is worse on the main roads" - data doesn't support this? Well it is common sense innit?

No doubt the government has someone that can answer this !

 

[Fab Foodie]

No doubt the government has someone that can answer this !

Christonnabike, Matty dearest, you could have warned-us about Bracknell related content....

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Not sure what you are on about here? Are you suggesting some sort of ULEZ zone for buildings should be stopped from entering the capital because they give off emissions?

My point is we must not forget it all started by an high rise, and then a other one and a other one. True that cars don't get cleaner but ther airflow in (big)cities is seriously impacted, Ulez is thus moreof a plaster than a serious long term solution.

Fuel cells don't last forever either, and they are very expensive. IIRC, there was a story a while back of a German driver who was quoted 100k euro to replace the fuel cell in his Toyota. Also it costs 10x as much to run a Hydrogen car vs. BEV. They will never be a viable option for personal transport.

True, i never claimed Hydroen are the mainternance free wonder things that never die, i only say they should be considere an serious alternative nextBEV and shared Toyota one of the largest car manufacurers who shares that beleive.
Sure you can claim that Toyota missed/was to slow with rolling out their BEV like @stowie explained could all be true, the future will tell. i do see however that Ford needed to step down their eletric plans due to very high losses, so it's not like BEV is all fun and games.
Some goes for all the parts they possible can be needed to replace in an electric vehicle

 

[the snail]

... Ulez is thus moreof a plaster than a serious long term solution.
...

The long-term solution is to make all vehicles zero tailpipe emissions.

 

[icowden]

Sure you can claim that Toyota missed/was to slow with rolling out their BEV like @stowie explained could all be true, the future will tell.

We don't need to claim it. It's true. It's a stone cold verifiable fact.

i do see however that Ford needed to step down their eletric plans due to very high losses, so it's not like BEV is all fun and games.

Weird how a company heavily invested in ICE and with masses of ICE stock might need to roll back their EV plans. Isn't it odd that BYD and Tesla on the other hand continue to make profits? It's almost as if Ford were a bit late to the game, have a very limited selection of EVs (one car one van and the explorer due out soon but delayed) and don't know how to play it...

Some goes for all the parts they possible can be needed to replace in an electric vehicle

All those many fewer parts than you find in an ICE vehicle you mean?

 

[stowie]

No doubt the government has someone that can answer this !

If the PM feels that he needs a minister specifically for common sense, it sort of implies the other ministers don't have common sense...

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

The long-term solution is to make all vehicles zero tailpipe emissions.

I don't agree, the controversial but in terms of effects best long term solution is stop population growth(rather reduce it) But the more realistic soluttion would be to at least for example only allow new builds that 100% meet the demands so that would in many area's mean only new social housing to be allowed to build. and they should limit the sizes more because those 30+ stories towers are not good for people and environment

We don't need to claim it. It's true. It's a stone cold verifiable fact.

Toyota's marketing department will most likely don't agree with you.

Weird how a company heavily invested in ICE and with masses of ICE stock might need to roll back their EV plans. Isn't it odd that BYD and Tesla on the other hand continue to make profits? It's almost as if Ford were a bit late to the game, have a very limited selection of EVs (one car one van and the explorer due out soon but delayed) and don't know how to play it...

Byd with massive Chinese goverment funding claims indeed some success but that also because they don't have an ice to compare too and they can test their vehicles on live dummies called the Chinese population.
Tesla has it's niche(s) not comparable what Ford tried and had to scale down due to very low sales, comparable ou can offcourse claim it's due to their ICE stocks but they results says show differently.

All those many fewer parts than you find in an ICE vehicle you mean?

in this case it was compared to BEV VS HEV both do have parts that need replacement are expensive. like the battery pack.

 

[icowden]

Toyota's marketing department will most likely don't agree with you.

Why would anyone believe a marketing department?

Byd with massive Chinese goverment funding claims indeed some success but that also because they don't have an ice to compare too and they can test their vehicles on live dummies called the Chinese population.

They are launching into the US and Europe. Their sales have been *very* good, but they are churning out hybrids as well as EVs. They are pricing themselves slightly lower than Tesla and they come across as more luxurious. It's only the tech savvy that will spot that the Tesla is more high tech and has far more range.

Tesla has it's niche(s) not comparable what Ford tried and had to scale down due to very low sales, comparable ou can offcourse claim it's due to their ICE stocks but they results says show differently.

Tesla and BYD are competing to be the biggest EV maker in the world. The old school manufacturers are way way behind...

 

[icowden]

in this case it was compared to BEV VS HEV both do have parts that need replacement are expensive. like the battery pack.

The battery pack does not *need* replacement. It does not wear out like a clutch.

 

[albion]

https://www.gbnews.com/lifestyle/cars/renault-larger-electric-vehicles-smaller-petrol-cars
Renault blusters about the obvious insanity of heavy SUV like EVs whilst attempting to hang onto petrol car production.

Obviously GBNews snaps up everything like this. Even more obvious is that short range light EVs is where all the incentives should be.

 

[BoldonLad]

https://www.gbnews.com/lifestyle/cars/renault-larger-electric-vehicles-smaller-petrol-cars
Renault blusters about the obvious insanity of heavy SUV like EVs whilst attempting to hang onto petrol car production.

Renault and Nissan have close links, the article "promotes" Japanese cars, what a surprise

It is conceivable that a small petrol car is more environmentally friendly that a large EV, as the article says, although, personally, I admit that I don't have the knowledge to argue the case

Renault have "small' EV's, haven't looked at them, but, I feel sure I have seen adverts for Electric Clio and Captur models, plus they have the Zoe.

 

[albion]

Apologies for using that prolific liars as a link.
A quick glance at their site loudly shouts out 'let the lies overwhelm the truths'.
Just like their TV.