Climate Crisis: Are we doing enough?

[BoldonLad]

We were meeting friends in the South of France (not far from Geneva) a month or so ago. Most of them flew. We decided to take the train and make it an adventure. So a night in Cherbourg, two nights in Paris, and a long weekend with our friends. The return included another night in Paris and a day in St Malo before the overnight ferry back. Four days 1st class train travel cost us about €170 each. It was the first time for a long while that I've been to France without the bike.

My pal started from Tyneside. I doubt £170 even got him to London, and, it probably took half a day to London, when waiting etc was included.

I dont know his exact route and timings, but, something like:

Metro South Shields - Newcastle Central
Newcastle Central - Kings Cross Intercity
Kings Cross - St Pancras (walk?)
St Pancras - Paris Gard du Nord Eurostar
overnight stay
Paris - Barcelona TGV
overnight stay
Barcelona - Majorca Ferry

I have no idea what it cost him, but, he did joke that his little fit of pique with Ryanair etc had been costly. But, having said that, I doubt he will be qualifying for heating allowance this year, and, he has not had to give up our weekly drinking sessions, so, not destitute. 🙂

 

[AndyRM]

WTF? The South of France is 9 hours by train from London not 28, so that means you live 18 hours from London? (allowing an hour to connect)

Zurich is 9-10 hours from London, not 17.

OK, flying from the UK to those is usually faster even after allowing the extra time for transfers, checkin and reclaim, but let's not exaggerate. Unrealistic travel time claims are normally shorter not longer!

What the hell has London got to do with anything? Apart from people thinking it's the be all an end all of international travel, apparently.

It'd take someone from Dunoon 20 hours to get to Marseille, at least. I know because I've done it.

Hell, it takes at least 5 hours to get from Newcastle to Norwich however you go.

In an ideal world we'd all be using public transport to get around, but the reality is that it's both difficult and time consuming.

 

[icowden]

What the hell has London got to do with anything? Apart from people thinking it's the be all an end all of international travel, apparently.

Surely you've realised by now that travel doesn't count unless it's from London or the home counties!

 

[AndyRM]

Surely you've realised by now that travel doesn't count unless it's from London or the home counties!

You're right of course, I've been a fool.

Public transport chat has reminded me of the time it took me 18 hours to get from Brighton to Glasgow. To be fair it was January 2 and my travelling companion didn't realise that's a public holiday in Scotland.

Accessible and affordable public transport is a myth in the UK, and most other countries too. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Unrealistic travel time claims about public transport are usually longer, not shorter.

 

[matticus]

Accessible and affordable public transport is a myth in the UK, and most other countries too. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Unrealistic travel time claims about public transport are usually longer, not shorter.

So because it's easier for londoners to have a nice break without flying, you & @icowden can't be arsed to do the right thing?

You're totally right about London having it easy with public transport ... but if we all keep saying "I'm doing nothing until those people over there mend their ways", we're all fúcked together. Ain't we?
The Londoners will blame richer Londoners, everyone blames the Chinese (whilst still buying loads of chinese crap), and so on, down ... down ...

 

[AndyRM]

So because it's easier for londoners to have a nice break without flying, you & @icowden can't be arsed to do the right thing?

You're totally right about London having it easy with public transport ... but if we all keep saying "I'm doing nothing until those people over there mend their ways", we're all fúcked together. Ain't we?
The Londoners will blame richer Londoners, everyone blames the Chinese (whilst still buying loads of chinese crap), and so on, down ... down ...

That's not even close to what I wrote.

I can be arsed to do the right thing, whatever that might be. I'm pretty cool with my version of it as it happens, and don't try to come up with fanciful notions that public transport is practical or effective for a lot of people.

 

[icowden]

I can't remember where @AndyRM is based.
For me to go on a family holiday to Marseilles for a week it takes 5.5 hours by air vs 10.5 hours by train (including customs waits etc) and costs £575 by air or £934.78 by train - I'm based in Surrey.

If Andy is based in Scotland - lets be nice and say Glasgow, he has either got to take KLM for £1194 and take 6 hours by plane, transferring at Amsterdam, or Ryanair for £771 taking 7.5 hours by plane - plus the two hours added on for check in - so 8 to 9 hours.

To go by train it will cost him £409 to get to St Pancras plus the £850 eurostar fare (so £1250) and instead of a 90 minute journey to St Pancras he has a 5 hour journey to St Pancras - so that's 15.5 hours by train and £500 cheaper.

In both instances it's a no brainer to fly. It's cheaper and faster.

 

[matticus]

In both instances it's a no brainer to fly. It's cheaper and faster.

Sure.

If you want to fúck over the Londoners. And each-other ...

 

[AndyRM]

I can't remember where @AndyRM is based.
For me to go on a family holiday to Marseilles for a week it takes 5.5 hours by air vs 10.5 hours by train (including customs waits etc) and costs £575 by air or £934.78 by train - I'm based in Surrey.

If Andy is based in Scotland - lets be nice and say Glasgow, he has either got to take KLM for £1194 and take 6 hours by plane, transferring at Amsterdam, or Ryanair for £771 taking 7.5 hours by plane - plus the two hours added on for check in - so 8 to 9 hours.

To go by train it will cost him £409 to get to St Pancras plus the £850 eurostar fare (so £1250) and instead of a 90 minute journey to St Pancras he has a 5 hour journey to St Pancras - so that's 15.5 hours by train and £500 cheaper.

In both instances it's a no brainer to fly. It's cheaper and faster.

I live in North Shields these days. My Dunoon example was based on where I'd lived before.

The ferry and train into Glasgow takes about two hours and you'll end up in Queen Street Station, which isn't a bad thing, but if you want to get a main line train southwards you'll need to get a train to Edinburgh, so that'll mean getting to Central Station which even on my long ass legs takes about 10 minutes.

As it happens, I'm going to Paris next week and I'd prefer to get the Metro and a train, but I can't, because it's not available.

It's not about f*cking over Londoners or everyone else, it's just the reality of the situation.

Hell, even in London people complain about public transport, but they really don't know how good they've got it.

 

[Ian H]

I can't remember where @AndyRM is based.
For me to go on a family holiday to Marseilles for a week it takes 5.5 hours by air vs 10.5 hours by train (including customs waits etc) and costs £575 by air or £934.78 by train - I'm based in Surrey.

If Andy is based in Scotland - lets be nice and say Glasgow, he has either got to take KLM for £1194 and take 6 hours by plane, transferring at Amsterdam, or Ryanair for £771 taking 7.5 hours by plane - plus the two hours added on for check in - so 8 to 9 hours.

To go by train it will cost him £409 to get to St Pancras plus the £850 eurostar fare (so £1250) and instead of a 90 minute journey to St Pancras he has a 5 hour journey to St Pancras - so that's 15.5 hours by train and £500 cheaper.

In both instances it's a no brainer to fly. It's cheaper and faster.

The no-brainer for me would be to choose a different destination. Or a reconfigured holiday.

 

[matticus]

The no-brainer for me would be to choose a different destination. Or a reconfigured holiday.

Well exactly!

I'm not claiming a guilt-free life in green terms, but this really should be common sense now.

 

[AndyRM]

I understand now. I'm not going to bother with Paris.

I'll spend my time knitting a yurt in my cave instead.

 

[icowden]

The no-brainer for me would be to choose a different destination. Or a reconfigured holiday.

So that rules out a huge swathe of the most popular holiday destinations. No more holidays to the states, the Caribbean, the Balearics, Greece, Turkey, Italy, Croatia, Egypt, Dubai etc. For most families they are just going to holiday in the UK, the North of France, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, the North of France or Norway. If we can work on global warming a bit more, the UK may become quite popular!

I can't see it happening but good luck with selling it.

 

[icowden]

I'm not claiming a guilt-free life in green terms, but this really should be common sense now.

"Sorry kids - we were going to take you to Disneyland or to see the Pyramids / Parthenon / Taj Mahal. Instead it's two weeks in Devon to build sandcastles"

 

[AndyRM]

"Sorry kids - we were going to take you to Disneyland or to see the Pyramids / Parthenon / Taj Mahal. Instead it's two weeks in Devon to build sandcastles"

Where the locals will bitch about you for having the temerity to be there.

There's loads of the Parthenon in London too, so that's an easy one to cross off the list,