Climate Crisis: Are we doing enough?

[Milzy]

Maybe a 16 year old didn’t cut down that tree. It was a perfect clean cut from both sides. You’d need a large blade and is 2 miles from the road side. Good excuse to put 5 g in Forrest’s and remote areas to have robo dogs.

 

[Unkraut]

I was responding directly to someone who calls themselves a Christian, but who seems to think inflicting pain on non violent protestors is acceptable

If you are still interested the protesters are breaking the law, and it is the job of the govt in the form of the police to enforce it. They 'do not bear the sword in vain'.

Whilst I don't particularly like it as I have already said but I can't see much alternative to removing protesters off the roads. No-one is arguing for torture. Legal remedies are available.

There have already been ugly scenes where the public have started taking the law into their own hands with real violence. I think the anger is caused by a lack of conviction the protesters are sincere, coupled with the not unreasonable question as to why the protesters don't have jobs they have to go to while stopping those who do. Professional protesters.

 

[cookiemonster]

Maybe a 16 year old didn’t cut down that tree. It was a perfect clean cut from both sides. You’d need a large blade and is 2 miles from the road side. Good excuse to put 5 g in Forrest’s and remote areas to have robo dogs.
View attachment 4651

NURSE!!!!

 

[cookiemonster]

Exactly. The USA invaded Syria and have taken control of their oil fields for themselves. It won’t make their fuel prices lower just more profit for the suits. They have done this a few times in the last 50 years.

Erm.. The USA are not in Syria.

Russia are though.

 

[mudsticks]

If you are still interested the protesters are breaking the law, and it is the job of the govt in the form of the police to enforce it. They 'do not bear the sword in vain'.

Whilst I don't particularly like it as I have already said but I can't see much alternative to removing protesters off the roads. No-one is arguing for torture. Legal remedies are available.

There have already been ugly scenes where the public have started taking the law into their own hands with real violence. I think the anger is caused by a lack of conviction the protesters are sincere, coupled with the not unreasonable question as to why the protesters don't have jobs they have to go to while stopping those who do. Professional protesters.

You can 'bodily' remove protestors without physically harming them I've seen it done many times.

Although I've also seen police clearly enjoying hurting and or degrading protestors too.
We know enough about police 'culture' to have a not unreasonable belief that a not inconsiderable number of them do actively enjoy hurting people.

Who is getting cross about that?


Before we were banned from discussing things at the other place we had an ex copper talking about going to the COP to help his ex colleagues with 'noisying up' (provoking trouble) at the citizens demos and marches.

As it was I saw a lot of bored looking bussed in pols standing around there in riot gear who obv couldn't get a 'proper' fight going - because we were there for a more serious cause.


What's all this about bahoolix about doubting the sincerity of those people giving up their free time to protest about climate change ??

Most climate activists have jobs or some form of support (including me), but they're committed enough to give up their free time to demand faster action on this, because it's really important.


But here you are repeating the same tired old tropes, doubting the sincerity of people who really care about the future.

Maybe it's to do with the hypocrisy, and part timeism you've seen in some supposedly 'Christian' groupings - who knows.?

 

[matticus]

There have already been ugly scenes where the public have started taking the law into their own hands with real violence. I think the anger is caused by a lack of conviction the protesters are sincere, coupled with the not unreasonable question as to why the protesters don't have jobs they have to go to while stopping those who do. Professional protesters.

Do you actually think it's a reasonable question? It's easy to hide behind "Some people think ... "

 

[mudsticks]

Do you actually think it's a reasonable question? It's easy to hide behind "Some people think ... "

Plus the 'professional protestors' thing .

Where do I apply for financial support please??

Maybe they do have renumeration schemes for climate activists in Germany, but I'd have thought my (German) colleague, who has taken part in such things, would have mentioned it if it were so.🤔

 

[Unkraut]

But here you are repeating the same tired old tropes, doubting the sincerity of people who really care about the future.

Do you actually think it's a reasonable question?

Well we've done all this before - my own doubts are fueled (as it were) by those I have personally known who are really into this but carefully avoid any reduction in their own personal use of fossil fuels. The cringeworthy interview by Piers Morgan of one of the founders of extinction rebellion. Plus the binge fest of fossil fuel use for the annual jamboree in some exotic location. An elite who exempt themselves from the reductions in use they want to impose on others.

As for funding, how about the Climate Emergency Fund? They claim to train and finance so-called activists, including in some cases granting a personal allowance, so this can indeed become fulltime activity.

The whole activism thing is imo starting to backfire. It doesn't of course affect the truth or otherwise of scientific claims being made about the climate, but it does affect the credibility of those claiming this is the most important issue on the agenda at the moment.

It was nice to have a holiday in England away from this recently, as German coverage is incessant doom- and fear-mongering at every report of bad weather.

 

[matticus]

Well we've done all this before - my own doubts are fueled (as it were) by those I have personally known who are really into this but carefully avoid any reduction in their own personal use of fossil fuels. The cringeworthy interview by Piers Morgan of one of the founders of extinction rebellion. Plus the binge fest of fossil fuel use for the annual jamboree in some exotic location. An elite who exempt themselves from the reductions in use they want to impose on others.

The climate activists you criticesed earlier are not jetting round the world to the "annual jamborees". I think you need to get your story straight!
p.s. Did you (or your anti-hypocrisy crusaders) listen to Greta? Or did you have some other reason to criticise a teenager who travels by train?

 

[spen666]

This story highlights one of biggest blockers to getting rid of vehicles with ICEs.

https://tinyurl.com/2p8vfr5z

We need a massive improvement in charging infrastructure both en route and at people's homes

 

[mudsticks]

Well we've done all this before - my own doubts are fueled (as it were) by those I have personally known who are really into this but carefully avoid any reduction in their own personal use of fossil fuels. The cringeworthy interview by Piers Morgan of one of the founders of extinction rebellion.

So you know some people who struggle to live in the greenest manner possible.??

I rather doubt they 'carefully avoid' more likely 'cant afford to do otherwise'.

As is the case for many under the present system.

Plus the binge fest of fossil fuel use for the annual jamboree in some exotic location.

Exotic locations - such as 'Glasgow' much as I love that place 'exotic' it isn't.

The COP isn't really much cop in terms of getting as much done, as needs to be done, but it is a place that at least get some reportage.

An elite who exempt themselves from the reductions in use they want to impose on others.

'Elites' ??
Climate scientists, activists, and campaigner are very far from being elite..

It's oil company bosses who are elites, if anyone is.

As for funding, how about the Climate Emergency Fund? They claim to train and finance so-called activists, including in some cases granting a personal allowance, so this can indeed become fulltime activity.

Even if the above were true in a very few instances, the vast majority of activists' and campaigners do this at their own expense.
You seem to find it hard to believe our motives are genuine.

Why would we give up spare time if we didn't genuinely care.??

The whole activism thing is imo starting to backfire. It doesn't of course affect the truth or otherwise of scientific claims being made about the climate, but it does affect the credibility of those claiming this is the most important issue on the agenda at the moment.

A livable planet for future generations can't be anything other than the most important issue to care about.
Without it all the other things are irrelevant .

It was nice to have a holiday in England away from this recently, as German coverage is incessant doom- and fear-mongering at every report of bad weather.

Well so long as your mental well-being is preserved, everything is fine.

Never mind if climate change driven, extreme weather events are destroying people's lives, got it, right 👍🏼

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Do you actually think it's a reasonable question? It's easy to hide behind "Some people think ... "

Let me see:

- unreasonable and unworkable demands - check
- unrealistic claims (so many climate deaths etc.) - check
- keeping their eyes closed for an lying and unfair industry claimed to be ''green'' just like ''wood pallets'' years ago - check
- for nl and possible other countries demands to end subsidies that actually don't exist? -- check

Yes i think it is an reasonable question, it not hiding about anything it calling out a few people who think they have the moral high ground but in fact or wrong on so many levels.
alltough i do like to add that violence should not be condomed whterh it is from people sick of the protestors or anything else. Silly enough when we had the same situation but the anti-covids crowd getting hurt nobody in here seemed to care// one standard for the one and a other for the other? What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Ian H]

...violence should not be condomed...

So many questions. So many unwonted mental images.

 

[Unkraut]

The climate activists you criticised earlier are not jetting round the world to the "annual jamborees". I think you need to get your story straight!

No they are not, I am talking about two groups both of whom imo make their claims less credible by their actions.

So you know some people who struggle to live in the greenest manner possible.??

I rather doubt they 'carefully avoid' more likely 'cant afford to do otherwise'.

I'm talking about colleagues in a secure well paid job, with a company car with a flat-rate cost (no incentive to be economical) who are profligate with their use of fuel by the speed at which they drive. This doesn't gell with saving the planet. Worse given we were all given training in how to drive economically.

About 40% of the German population, the traditional working class, have not seen much of the increase in wealth that has occurred over the last couple of decades until recently. They really are being hit by increased energy costs that better off middle-class activists seem to think necessary.

Exotic locations

Kyoto, Buenos Aires, Milan, Montreal, Bali. Bali a nice warm island with I believe good surfing. Copenhagen - I remember that one for the massive amount of flying done by those who attended it. Private jets that had to be 'parked' in other countries. Durban - welcomed 40 000 guests according to their tourist info, most of whom would have flown there, long haul. Warsaw, Paris, Madrid. Nice interesting cities with plenty of nightlife ...

A jumbo uses 330 000 litres of aviation fuel per flight.

I got into an argument with someone who said the scientists actually do need to get together. Even if you grant that, why do thousands of hangers-on need to go as well? The technology has been there before Corona for them to tune in to the sessions.

You seem to find it hard to believe our motives are genuine.

I'm not claiming all activists are only ever hypocrites, but too many of them do make it difficult to believe they are sincere. Let me give you another example from over here. Two activists are due to appear in court, but don't show up because they are on holiday in Bali. Last Generation (that's a bit melodramatic isn't it?) justified this by saying 'this was a private booking and they were not travelling as climate activists. You need to keep these separate'. Same justification as used by extinction rebellion. This is not rational behaviour. Who on earth is ever going to take them seriously? No wonder people are getting angry at not being able to get to work if they themselves could never afford a holiday in Bali.

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Klima-A...-Kritik-fuer-Klimakleber-article23884363.html

I think it is a reasonable question to ask those who want to save the planet whether they would be prepared to cut down drastically their use of smartphones and other devices. These all use electricity, and one phone being charged is indeed negligible, but hunders of millions across Europe every day of the year must add up to something.

 

[mudsticks]

No they are not, I am talking about two groups both of whom imo make their claims less credible by their actions.

I'm talking about colleagues in a secure well paid job, with a company car with a flat-rate cost (no incentive to be economical) who are profligate with their use of fuel by the speed at which they drive. This doesn't gell with saving the planet. Worse given we were all given training in how to drive economically.

I don't see how these profligate colleagues are relevant.
Are they climate activists??
Aiui the Germans have a bit of a big car fetish.

About 40% of the German population, the traditional working class, have not seen much of the increase in wealth that has occurred over the last couple of decades until recently. They really are being hit by increased energy costs that better off middle-class activists seem to think necessary.

Energy prices in Germany are being seriously affected by the Russian invasion of Ukraine I believe.
But if as here people on low incomes in Germany tend to live in the worst housing stock that is expensive to heat and run then that could be addressed in a number of ways eg by better insulation.

Look at the vast profits made by energy companies, if you want to know where the money is.

There are lots of solutions to reducing energy use, enhancing public transport, and lowering cost of living, whilst enhancing wellbeing for populations.
The political will to invest in those is lacking here, as it's not all about capitalistic 'growth' maybe it is there too.

Kyoto, Buenos Aires, Milan, Montreal, Bali. Bali a nice warm island with I believe good surfing. Copenhagen - I remember that one for the massive amount of flying done by those who attended it. Private jets that had to be 'parked' in other countries. Durban - welcomed 40 000 guests according to their tourist info, most of whom would have flown there, long haul. Warsaw, Paris, Madrid. Nice interesting cities with plenty of nightlife ...

A jumbo uses 330 000 litres of aviation fuel per flight.

I agree that the (official) COP as it stands is a fairly toothless, and profligate, but does give access to decision makers.
The grassroots fringe event - a lot of which is online is another matter.

I agree re the pollution of flying.
Many climate activists won't do it, I've only taken one flight in the last thirty years for that very reason.

I got into an argument with someone who said the scientists actually do need to get together. Even if you grant that, why do thousands of hangers-on need to go as well? The technology has been there before Corona for them to tune in to the sessions.

I'm not claiming all activists are only ever hypocrites, but too many of them do make it difficult to believe they are sincere. Let me give you another example from over here. Two activists are due to appear in court, but don't show up because they are on holiday in Bali. Last Generation (that's a bit melodramatic isn't it?) justified this by saying 'this was a private booking and they were not travelling as climate activists. You need to keep these separate'. Same justification as used by extinction rebellion. This is not rational behaviour. Who on earth is ever going to take them seriously? No wonder people are getting angry at not being able to get to work if they themselves could never afford a holiday in Bali.

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Klima-A...-Kritik-fuer-Klimakleber-article23884363.html

Yes it only takes one case like this to undermine the credibility of climate activists, and pretty much proves all climate concerned persons are hypocrites - if you want it to 🙄
Those who want to carry on business as usual can do whatever they like whenever they like, without question.

Because??
Well just because.

I think it is a reasonable question to ask those who want to save the planet whether they would be prepared to cut down drastically their use of smartphones and other devices. These all use electricity, and one phone being charged is indeed negligible, but hunders of millions across Europe every day of the year must add up to something.

It's reasonable to ask all sorts of things.

If we invested far more quickly in renewables then charging phones wouldn't be a problem.

Individual actions don't make a vast difference (except to demonstrate its possible)
The action needs to be taken broadscale top down to make the 'greener' way the norm, that takes putting pressure on governments and large corporations .

And some of that pressure comes in the form of protest to raise awareness