Continuation of Covid Vaccine post from the main site

[IanSmithCSE]

Good afternoon,

Wow! https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/covid-vaccine.267960/page-324 post 4856 there is a lot of hate in some of the replies.

Buck
Has presented a clear and consistent argument that emergency powers are the basis of the action.
I understand this and it makes a great deal of sense except that to me there was never an intent when these powers were granted that they would be used 18 months after the initial discovery of an emergency.

After a period that long normal parliamentary procedures would resume.

fossyant
Take your stupid conspiracy theories somewhere else FFS.
Hard to answer that.

newfhouse
Of all the things to get upset about around the pandemic response, receiving an occasional SMS isn’t one of them. Get a grip.
Please see the last sentence of this post and really, really think about it.

Classic33
Marketing means having something to sell, what are they selling?
They are selling a political/social view, I genuinely believe that the number of people in the UK who have mobile phones and do not have a well defined opinion on COVID tends to zero.

That I and it seems reasonable to think that you agree with it doesn't mean that is it NOT a political message.

Alex 321
Public Information. Delivered by SMS rather than TV broadcast.

It's not NEW information, I believe that almost everybody who has received the text will have seen the same message elsewhere many times. Do you have examples otherwise?

I was woken at two in the morning to explain to an 80 plus (discretion needed) year old woman who has been terrified by COVID that this was spam not Track and Trace.

Ming the Merciless
"It is however credible that people aware of the booster program, but have not bothered so far, may be prompted into action by the text."
Again that is a reasonable argument, but it makes it marketing, anybody who truly cared would have gone.

A while back I posted https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/lbs-expanding-but-moving-out-of-town.271089/ intending it to be a discussion of a pair of LBSs moving out of town and was told by T4tomo So the OP is moaning about a shop(s) he never uses consolidating to one premise......

Surely the point of an internet forum is when you see something that you don't agree with is to think, does he have point?

Classic33 gave me a hard time As presented, is it not a means of diverting traffic to your own site. Thereby increasing your site's chances of rising in search engine rankings.

It is important to remember that not everybody sees COVID in the same way as you do.

After almost 2 years I do not know anyone who has had COVID as a significant disease, so I ask you to think about that very carefully.

I often put the sentence "Putin said and the Russian parliament agreed" before many public announcements and then consider how I would view them.

Bye

Ian

 

[AuroraSaab]

Hi Ian. I haven't been following the other thread. It sounds like it might have the tone of a typical CC thread on a contentious topic.

I know 2 people who have died from it (one elderly, other healthy (as far as I know) and in their 50's). I know others who have been very poorly. I live near a large care home and at the height of the epidemic there were ambulances there a couple of times a day, and the funeral van there a couple of times a week. Might not all be covid related of course, but we see far less of both these days.

I appreciate my experience may not be the same as yours but surely the number of additional deaths shows that covid is a very serious threat. Of course, we can disagree about what the level of response should have been/should be, but, deaths aside, even a rise in hospitalizations and staff being off work has a huge effect on things like other NHS operations and patient treatments.

 

[FishFright]

Good afternoon,

Wow! https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/covid-vaccine.267960/page-324 post 4856 there is a lot of hate in some of the replies.

Buck
Has presented a clear and consistent argument that emergency powers are the basis of the action.
I understand this and it makes a great deal of sense except that to me there was never an intent when these powers were granted that they would be used 18 months after the initial discovery of an emergency.

After a period that long normal parliamentary procedures would resume.

fossyant
Take your stupid conspiracy theories somewhere else FFS.
Hard to answer that.

newfhouse
Of all the things to get upset about around the pandemic response, receiving an occasional SMS isn’t one of them. Get a grip.
Please see the last sentence of this post and really, really think about it.

Classic33
Marketing means having something to sell, what are they selling?
They are selling a political/social view, I genuinely believe that the number of people in the UK who have mobile phones and do not have a well defined opinion on COVID tends to zero.

That I and it seems reasonable to think that you agree with it doesn't mean that is it NOT a political message.

Alex 321
Public Information. Delivered by SMS rather than TV broadcast.

It's not NEW information, I believe that almost everybody who has received the text will have seen the same message elsewhere many times. Do you have examples otherwise?

I was woken at two in the morning to explain to an 80 plus (discretion needed) year old woman who has been terrified by COVID that this was spam not Track and Trace.

Ming the Merciless
"It is however credible that people aware of the booster program, but have not bothered so far, may be prompted into action by the text."
Again that is a reasonable argument, but it makes it marketing, anybody who truly cared would have gone.

A while back I posted https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/lbs-expanding-but-moving-out-of-town.271089/ intending it to be a discussion of a pair of LBSs moving out of town and was told by T4tomo So the OP is moaning about a shop(s) he never uses consolidating to one premise......

Surely the point of an internet forum is when you see something that you don't agree with is to think, does he have point?

Classic33 gave me a hard time As presented, is it not a means of diverting traffic to your own site. Thereby increasing your site's chances of rising in search engine rankings.

It is important to remember that not everybody sees COVID in the same way as you do.

After almost 2 years I do not know anyone who has had COVID as a significant disease, so I ask you to think about that very carefully.

I often put the sentence "Putin said and the Russian parliament agreed" before many public announcements and then consider how I would view them.

Bye

Ian

A good friend of mine has had 12 friends and family die and a few more who were very ill.
Another friend has his youngest son (5) very ill with covid but made a full recovery.

I could go on and list the others in my circle affected by covid directly but you won't care as it clashes with your opinions and nowadays that is way more important than reality

So count yourself very , very lucky.

FU
Fish

 

[newfhouse]

there is a lot of hate in some of the replies.

Not in my case, Ian. I do admit to bewilderment.

Surely the point of an internet forum is when you see something that you don't agree with is to think, does he have point?

Yes, that is what I did. I don’t think you have a valid point. As I read it, your post was about the regulatory niceties of a mass SMS campaign.
I see you have added some text while I have been composing this reply. This seems a reasonable place to insert it.

I was woken at two in the morning to explain to an 80 plus (discretion needed) year old woman who has been terrified by COVID that this was spam not Track and Trace.

Is that the time that the SMS arrived? That surprises me. I would have been less happy if mine had woken me up. Having said that, I’m not sure what was terrifying about an encouragement to visit the NHS website. There was no clickable link in the one I received, how about hers? I do hope you gave her some sensible advice and set her mind at ease.

I often put the sentence "Putin said and the Russian parliament agreed" before many public announcements and then consider how I would view them.

Why? Doesn’t that simply make every single public announcement sound sinister? This particular case relates to a public health message that may contribute to saving tens of lives every day.

After almost 2 years I do not know anyone who has had COVID as a significant disease, so I ask you to think about that very carefully.

You are very fortunate but I’m not sure your experience says much about the national picture, given the excess death and long covid numbers.

 

[classic33]

Good afternoon,

Wow! https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/covid-vaccine.267960/page-324 post 4856 there is a lot of hate in some of the replies.


Has presented a clear and consistent argument that emergency powers are the basis of the action.
I understand this and it makes a great deal of sense except that to me there was never an intent when these powers were granted that they would be used 18 months after the initial discovery of an emergency.

After a period that long normal parliamentary procedures would resume.


Take your stupid conspiracy theories somewhere else FFS.
Hard to answer that.


Of all the things to get upset about around the pandemic response, receiving an occasional SMS isn’t one of them. Get a grip.
Please see the last sentence of this post and really, really think about it.

Classic33
Marketing means having something to sell, what are they selling?
They are selling a political/social view, I genuinely believe that the number of people in the UK who have mobile phones and do not have a well defined opinion on COVID tends to zero.

That I and it seems reasonable to think that you agree with it doesn't mean that is it NOT a political message.


Public Information. Delivered by SMS rather than TV broadcast.

It's not NEW information, I believe that almost everybody who has received the text will have seen the same message elsewhere many times. Do you have examples otherwise?

I was woken at two in the morning to explain to an 80 plus (discretion needed) year old woman who has been terrified by COVID that this was spam not Track and Trace.

Ming the Merciless
"It is however credible that people aware of the booster program, but have not bothered so far, may be prompted into action by the text."
Again that is a reasonable argument, but it makes it marketing, anybody who truly cared would have gone.

A while back I posted https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/lbs-expanding-but-moving-out-of-town.271089/ intending it to be a discussion of a pair of LBSs moving out of town and was told by ..... So the OP is moaning about a shop(s) he never uses consolidating to one premise......

Surely the point of an internet forum is when you see something that you don't agree with is to think, does he have point?

Classic33 gave me a hard time As presented, is it not a means of diverting traffic to your own site. Thereby increasing your site's chances of rising in search engine rankings.

It is important to remember that not everybody sees COVID in the same way as you do.

After almost 2 years I do not know anyone who has had COVID as a significant disease, so I ask you to think about that very carefully.

I often put the sentence "Putin said and the Russian parliament agreed" before many public announcements and then consider how I would view them.

Bye

Ian

Maybe try
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/c...eir-thread-an-idea.273386/page-4#post-6359589

From March this year, which relates to neither thread mentioned, by yourself, above. You took exception to me saying "would you be willing to trust a listed spammer?".
You agreed you were listed as a spammer, saying you knew who did it and that it was the same person who reported you, twice. It was one of the links, posted by yourself, that brought that up in a search.

It has nothing to do with the Covid Vaccine thread. So why are you trying to say it does?

And I'll stand by what I said in that I do not consider the text messages to be marketing material. And to use your own words "Surely the point of an internet forum is when you see something that you don't agree with is to think, does he have point?".
Convince me otherwise, that it is marketing material. Ireland had a system whereby alerts, in the form of text messages, were sent to all mobiles when a vulnerable person went missing. Unsolicited, but triggered at national level. I had to pay to receive them as I was on roaming. I never considered them to be marketing material, despite the fact you were unable to opt out, nor reply. What were these messages selling?

As regards the last 22 months, I'll say you've been lucky. Someone I knew was told they now had epilepsy. The description and name given to them couldn't have been worse, SUDEP(SUdden Death in EPilepsy). Like me, their hospital treatment ceased when this kicked off in this country. They never saw the end of the first year after being told. I do know that they were a victim of covid, but whether that was because of the epilepsy or because hospital treatment had ceased, or even if they died as a direct result of covid I'll never know. But they were a victim of covid.
Not every victim died as a direct result of catching covid. You'd do well to remember that.

 

[Ian H]

It is important to remember that not everybody sees COVID in the same way as you do.

After almost 2 years I do not know anyone who has had COVID as a significant disease, so I ask you to think about that very carefully.

I could come over all pompous and and ask you to think very carefully about my friend's elderly father, lost to Covid; another friend suffering rather seriously from long Covid and unable to return to work after more than a month; three or four other friends who have been laid low with varying degrees of illness; an acquaintance who was on a ventilator for two weeks. Not to mention the deaths listed above by others.

But I won't.

 

[farfromtheland]

This is the most immediately important post from the other main-site thread for me -

Thoughts on Dr Clive Dix's (a former head of the vaccine taskforce ) statement that he believes the AZ vaccine is behind the UK's lower death rates due to lasting cellular immunity, which is not as much a feature of mRNA vaccines? Yahoo link here, also in Independent yesterday. Doubtless elsewhere, too.

Pfizer are now working on a vaccine for the Omicron variant that they say will be ready by March. Before anyone had a chance to do any Omicron research Pfizer gave press releases saying they saw no evidence that the MRNA vaccines would not work, while Astra-Zeneca were being more tentative, hoping their AZ vaccine's long lasting T cell response would be fairly effective. This tentative approach is the right one, yet has only just hit the mainstream news.

I have had two AZ jabs, on my GP practice's advice. I have an unusual condition akin to allergy and possible immune suppression. I am not going to have a Pfizer vaccine - I do know someone who has been knocked out by it - yet AZ is no longer available here. AZ faced up to the early blood clot issue and found the factors causing it. Pfizer have not released any information on why some people have bad reactions to their jab, as far as I know.

Draw your own conclusions. A deficit of unbiased information is dangerous in my opinion. I have had 4 phone calls from the Booster service and have raised these issues every time to be told there is no way to address them. Echoes of 'I'm only doing my job' to me.

Neither AZ or Pfizer has an impeccable ethical record but Pfizer's is a lot worse.

 

[Mr Celine]

It's not NEW information, I believe that almost everybody who has received the text will have seen the same message elsewhere many times. Do you have examples otherwise?

Don't you remember public information films from the sixties and seventies? If they'd showed each one just the once I might have missed it and even now could be driving a car with mixed cross plys and radials, be unable to safely reverse into a loading bay, be unable to cross a road and be unaware that I shouldn't go with strangers.

I was woken at two in the morning to explain to an 80 plus (discretion needed) year old woman who has been terrified by COVID that this was spam not Track and Trace.

Might have been a better use of your time explaining how to set the 'do not disturb' feature so she's not bothered at night.

It is important to remember that not everybody sees COVID in the same way as you do.

After almost 2 years I do not know anyone who has had COVID as a significant disease, so I ask you to think about that very carefully.

After more than 5 years I do not know anyone who voted for BREXIT so I ask you to think about that very carefully.

I do of course accept the result of the referendum as I have no reason to doubt it. I would have no reason to doubt covid either, even if my mother in law and one other person I know hadn't died of it.

 

[farfromtheland]

Here is the text of that link from The Independent above -

Oxford AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine ‘preventing lagged rise in deaths’
Clive Dix said the durable cellular immunity response produced by the AZ jab can potentially ‘last for life’.

'The use of the Oxford AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine in vulnerable people may be resulting in a lower death toll in the UK compared to Europe according to the former chief of the country’s vaccine taskforce.

Clive Dix said the durable cellular immunity response produced by the AZ jab can potentially “last for life”.

The Oxford/AstraZeneca jab was approved last December, and vaccines were initially rolled out among the older and the most vulnerable in society.

Mr Dix told The Daily Telegraph: “If you look across Europe, with the rise in cases, there’s also a corresponding lagged rise in deaths, but not in the UK, and we have to understand that.”

He added: “I personally believe that’s because most of our vulnerable people were given the AstraZeneca vaccine.”


- Please understand that I am posting to suggest AZ long-term effectiveness, not to comment on Europe.

 

[Bazzer]

As stated upthread, may be you have been very lucky. A very good friend of mine has had it (twice), as has his wife. My sister currently has it and at least up to yesterday was very poorly, despite being jabbed (x2 + booster).
3 people at my (previously) usual work place have died. Cause of death has, I understand, been ascribed as COVID related. 2 were at the start of the outbreak. The third was shortly before Christmas.
Mrs B has been telling me almost monthly, of friends linked to COVID deaths or illness, from one who was a COVID denier, until some relatives of hers in Northern Ireland, who were also deniers, died of what I am told, were COVID related symptoms. Then she got vaccinated. To the husband of Mrs B's church minister caught COVID not long into the outbreak. Formerly a fit individual in his mid 50s, his life was wrecked and even after this length of time, he is still struggling.

 

[Pale Rider]

I don't claim to have lots of friends, but what I do have (regrettably) is contact with lots of nurses and patients at my regular hospital clinics.

No Covid deaths or serious illness of which I've heard.

More or less 100% vaccine take up explains a lot about my little cohort.

 

[PaulB]

I know seven people so far who have died of the virus and six others (some would say eight others) who have been debilitated for some time after catching it. My wife is a very senior nurse and obviously is very connected to what's happening here. She can't count how many deaths she's seen or been made aware of but it runs into the hundreds.

My company devise, manufacture and sell medical equipment (mainly to Anaesthetists) so we can say with some degree of certainty what is happening otherwise, we'd over or under-manufacture so this is something we have to stay on top of (and to counteract the jobs-costing stupidity of Brexit on top!). As we keep in close contact (my first day back today after the hols) with consultant surgeons, nurses, anaesthetists and procurement managers, we get a good idea of what's happening in the health service because they tell us.

What we're seeing now is a drop in sales back to slightly less than this time last year (which was about 60% of the previous Covid-free year) meaning many fewer routine procedures are being carried out in hospitals. The stupidity of the anti-vaxxers who are mainly behind this is enraging the medical establishment as they're seeing people die of cancers that could have been treated earlier with a greater chance of success because they are not quite at death's door while the anti-vaxxers are after getting ill with Covid so become priorities! The selfishness and blindness to actual facts of these Facebook/twitter-fed imbeciles is actually and provably costing lives.

 

[PK99]

Our NYE for a number of years has been spent with good friends and neighbours who live a few doors away, plus good friends of theirs who come up for Surrey and stay over - coincidentally, he is a very keen cyclist going on Majorca training camps every year.

The Surrey friends are not invited this year as they are AntiVax. (Not my initiative, but the neighbours who host them)

Two cycling colleagues have died of Covid and another's father.

 

[Johnno260]

So if the basis is what you have witnessed I know 2 people suffering long term effects from Covid, no deaths but the young women who is a family friend is suffering cardiac issue and lung damage, her child who is 10 hasn't attended school properly since testing positive as he keeps suffering from huge fatigue issues and sporadic fevers, these cases are pre vaccine I will add.

But in a fluid situation you have to adapt, anyone who takes a date at face value during a pandemic isn't seeing that it's something that requires constant monitoring.

The long term effects of this illness are nothing to brush under the carpet, and holding agencies to account for a date that was set isn't really helpful.

Edit: the phone messaging is part of the governments way of communicating en-mass to the public, the states have had this in place much longer than U.K. , it's been tested a few times over the past year it's nothing new and nothing sinister, they don't have your number it's a message broadcast from the local tower:

https://www.gov.uk/alerts

 

[AuroraSaab]

I know seven people so far who have died of the virus and six others (some would say eight others) who have been debilitated for some time after catching it. My wife is a very senior nurse and obviously is very connected to what's happening here. She can't count how many deaths she's seen or been made aware of but it runs into the hundreds.

My company devise, manufacture and sell medical equipment (mainly to Anaesthetists) so we can say with some degree of certainty what is happening otherwise, we'd over or under-manufacture so this is something we have to stay on top of (and to counteract the jobs-costing stupidity of Brexit on top!). As we keep in close contact (my first day back today after the hols) with consultant surgeons, nurses, anaesthetists and procurement managers, we get a good idea of what's happening in the health service because they tell us.

What we're seeing now is a drop in sales back to slightly less than this time last year (which was about 60% of the previous Covid-free year) meaning many fewer routine procedures are being carried out in hospitals. The stupidity of the anti-vaxxers who are mainly behind this is enraging the medical establishment as they're seeing people die of cancers that could have been treated earlier with a greater chance of success because they are not quite at death's door while the anti-vaxxers are after getting ill with Covid so become priorities! The selfishness and blindness to actual facts of these Facebook/twitter-fed imbeciles is actually and provably costing lives.

This is one of my main issues with those who seek to minimise the effects of covid. It's not all about the death rate. It's about those who have been unable to get treatment and social care etc because staff are dealing with covid sufferers or because staff are ill with covid themselves.