Death penalty

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This is all getting too technical. What do they use in those Swiss clinics?

It seems to work because people are prepared to pay for it, and AFAIK there are no customer complaints.

Outsource it all to them. The US likes good franchise opportunities. Match made in heaven.

AFAIK the reason they no longer have the drugs for lethal injections is that no company wishes to supply them 'legally' any more - not a big sales pitch being complicit in state sponsored murder. Swiss clinics are offering a service to those willing to sponsor their own demise and vets use lethal injection to end suffering. Therein lie the subtleties of modern life and death decisions....
 
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The alarm we have on the liquid nitrogen store is piercing. More so than any of the other alarms we have because it's designed to rouse people who may be unaware that they are drifting off. Our protocol is to never go into the liquid nitrogen store unaccompanied, have someone observing from outside the room and always check the oxygen meter before going in. There's a huge automatic ventilation system and the window is kept open. Also never transport it in a confined space especially where it could spill, such as a car or a lift.

The panic response you might associate with suffocation isn't caused by oxygen depletion, it's actually a response to build up of carbon dioxide which is why you can be unaware of what's happening. You're suffocating but because you're still blowing off CO2 your body doesn't know about it and you don't have the urge to get to safety.

As it should be.
A lot of N2 and CO2 is used in food factories.
CO2 you can taste as 'soapy' and heavy to bteath - you'd know if the concentration rose. N2 is a completely different matter. We installed freezing systems that could consume tons of liquid N2 per hour. When you consider that 1 litre of liquid N2 evaporates to over 600 litres of gas, it doesn't take much to deplete the O2 level in a confined space. All installations came with big exhaust ventilation systems that not only pulled the spent gas from the freezer but also from the room-space. O2 detectors were generally fitted in more confined areas. The freezers were not sealed so there was always some small leakage of cold gas onto the floor. The installation had to be assessed such that N2 concentration could not build-up in dead-air spaces like corners, stairwells etc.

Liquid N2 because of its rapid expansion needs treating with a lot of respect....
 
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So the first Nitrogen Gas execution took 22 minutes for the condemned to die, reported at the time of publishing. Would it have not been better and simply more humane to have clubbed him to death with a meat tenderiser? Or outsource the job to the mafia, for an ice pick insertion to the back of the head or an overshined shoe stomping to the face? All likely to take less than 22 minutes for a semi-pro...

There's a lot we don't know from current reports..and an awful lot of hysterics around this 'new method' rather than facts.
Was it 22 minutes from the administration of the gas or fitting the mask or entering the room. Over what time period did they ramp-up the N2 level etc.
The horror must be in being strapped down with a tight fitting mask being applied and the unknown manner of your death in this instance.
My understanding is that a couple lungfulls of N2 will see you unknowingly unconcious and an undramatic death follows swiftly. I've often thought that as a way to go, N2 inhalation is pretty good.
Some facts here would be useful....

In no way do I condone the death penalty however 'humanely' applied.
 
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D

Deleted member 121

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There's a lot we don't know from current reports..and an awful lot of hysterics around this 'new method' rather than facts.
Was it 22 minutes from the administration of the gas or fitting the mask or entering the room. Over what time period did they ramp-up the N2 level etc.
The horror must be in being strapped down with a tight fitting mask being applied and the unknown manner of your death in this instance.
My understanding is that a couple lungfulls of N2 will see you unknowingly unconcious and an undramatic death follows swiftly. I've often thought that as a way to go, N2 inhalation is pretty good.
Some facts here would be useful....

In no way do I condone the death penalty however 'humanely' applied.

Sadly, at this time, different sources are quoting different times for first administering the Nitrogen, so on facts, you have a point but im sure a detailed report will come forth.

However, Witnesses to the execution report much writhing, convulsing, thrashing and gasps. In addition to being examined on multiple occasions before allowing the execution to continue and Smith appeared to remain conscious for several of those minutes.

Make of that what you will. To me that seems far from undramatic.

To be fair, the facts on Nitrogen inhalation/hypoxia or at least the method of administering it with gas masks or whatever were not made clear to the state before allowing this execution to go ahead. The reality seems to be becoming even more clear, they didn't really know what they were going to expect and therefore all of this seems far from "humane"... But the job is done, so they can be sure to pat themselves on the back.
 

glasgowcyclist

Über Member
asphyxiation by Nitrogen gas would be an OK way to go if they just used a room

As an unwitting victim, maybe. I don’t think someone who would rather not die would calmly enter a gas chamber, knowing that the consequence would be fatal, no matter how painless the effects.

There would surely be an awareness of impending death as they lose consciousness, which would still be terrifying.
 

icowden

Legendary Member
This is all getting too technical. What do they use in those Swiss clinics?
In general, Dignitas uses the following protocol to assist death: an oral dose of an antiemetic drug, followed approximately half an hour later by a lethal overdose of 15 grams of powdered pentobarbital dissolved in a glass of water. If necessary, the drugs can be ingested through a drinking straw.
Outsource it all to them. The US likes good franchise opportunities. Match made in heaven.
I think there is a small moral difference between giving someone in pain the choice to end their life and their suffering of their own free will in a painless way and killing someone. I suspect it might be tricky to convince a death row inmate to drink the nice drinks.
 

albion

Guru
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/25/alabama-executes-kenneth-smith-nitrogen-gas

Lying is part of the course for extremists. Sick people.
'Alabama claimed that the new nitrogen gas method was “perhaps the most humane method of execution ever devised'
 

CXRAndy

Veteran
Smith was contract killer, deserved execution. Don't care how it was done, nitrogen seems a more kinder way than many other options.
 

albion

Guru
' “Smith writhed and convulsed on the gurney. He took deep breaths, his body shaking violently with his eyes rolling in the back of his head.”
Roney’s report continued: “Smith clenched his fists, his legs shook … He seemed to be gasping for air. The gurney shook several times.”
Rev. Jeff Hood, Smith’s spiritual adviser, was at Smith’s side for the execution, and said prison officials in the room “were visibly surprised at how bad this thing went.” '

'Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who along with two other liberal justices dissented, wrote: “Having failed to kill Smith on its first attempt ', Alabama has selected him as its ‘guinea pig’ to test a method of execution never attempted before. The world is watching.”

Smith said "Tonight, Alabama caused humanity to take a step backwards," Smith said. "I'm leaving with love, peace and light. Thank you for supporting me, love all of you.". Media witnesses said Smith appeared conscious for about ten minutes. (NPR)
https://www.npr.org/2024/01/25/1226936713/alabama-execution-kenneth-smith?ft=nprml&f=191676894

As I said, sick.
 
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icowden

Legendary Member
Lying is part of the course for extremists. Sick people.
'Alabama claimed that the new nitrogen gas method was “perhaps the most humane method of execution ever devised'
At least the manufacturer will be able to get some endorsements:-

"Here in the 3rd Reich we endorse Alabama's move to safer execution - A. Hitler."
"We can't wait to use the new gas technique in our re-education camps - K J Un"

Countries that have used gas executions:-
  • Germany (Nazi)
  • North Korea (Camp 22 human experientation)
  • Soviet Union (Gas execution vans inspired by Nazi Germany)
  • Lithuania (Aleksotas First Fort - 3 years only)
  • USA! USA! USA!
are-we-the-baddies-bad.gif
 
As an unwitting victim, maybe. I don’t think someone who would rather not die would calmly enter a gas chamber, knowing that the consequence would be fatal, no matter how painless the effects.

There would surely be an awareness of impending death as they lose consciousness, which would still be terrifying.

Oh, absolutely agree. The whole thing is barbaric.
 
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