Death penalty

[albion]

Very likely he was not guilty. Even the prosecutors said that.

 

[albion]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/sep/29/america-executions-death-penalty

'Six days of horror, disdain for probable innocence'.

As the banner says, state murder is not justice. The 'Trump connection' rings true.
Mexico style police involved executions if Trump wins?

 

[monkers]

Alan Shore has it covered (courtroom drama). Using my browser at least the parts follow each other without having to link to the next, but this may vary.

Pt 1 ... 4:20
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78o5dGlafUo


Pt 2 ... 3:41
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01yZZuXIwbA


Pt 3 ... 2:28
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV3KEOqYiLk

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

A swift bullet to the head would seem more humane to me.

I find it extremely ironic that in the USA - where guns are common in some areas - they are against using a firing squad to execute people

I can only assume because it can be messy or something

and persist with methods that have serious problems and sometimes just don't work

BTW I am against the whole concept of a death penalty - but if you are going to do it then the methods they use seem to be the worst available which are not specifically just torture!

 

[albion]

It is extremely ironic that evangelistic christians in the US support Trump.
As unchristian as you can get.

 

[icowden]

I find it extremely ironic that in the USA - where guns are common in some areas - they are against using a firing squad to execute people

Oh they aren't. Utah used firing squad in 2010. Idaho, Mississippi, Oklahoma and South Carolina have all passed legislation to authorise firing squads once the lethal injection supplies dried up.
https://apnews.com/article/death-pe...squads-idaho-74803c0de8a50a512bdb52dae4974570

But yes, I think it was the preserve of the military really because in the US they like to watch the execution and shooting someone might be more upsetting than watching them slowly strangle to death.

 

[AndyRM]

In a warped kind of way, the US does have firing squads - "suicide by cop".

 

[spen666]

Those of us who work in the Criminal Justice and have experience of people being wrongly convicted ( sometimes later rectified) would not support the death penalty as it is irreversible.

Even so called forensic proof is not infallible.

Remember George Bulsara convicted of murder of Jill Dando on Basis of forensic evidence
Maguire 7 convicted on forensic evidence of IRA crimes

To name just two.
In relation to DNA evidence - this again is not infallible as the instance of identical DNA between members of Afro Carribean community has never been explained


This is without considering the morals or ethics - such as killing is wrong, so we will kill you. A bit like Animal Farm some are more equal than others -ie state sponsored killers are ok, but non state sponsored killers are not

I am led to believe there is also some evidence to suggest that fingerprints are not necessarily unique either.

 

[icowden]

I am led to believe there is also some evidence to suggest that fingerprints are not necessarily unique either.

I think it's more that there is no evidence to suggest that they are unique, only the finding that as yet, we haven't found two people with exactly the same fingerprints where the fingerprint evidence was essential. There is strong evidence to suggest that the incidence of two people having identical finger prints is incredibly small, but only on the basis that all the recorded fingerprints seem to be different.

 

[Ian H]

I think it's more that there is no evidence to suggest that they are unique, only the finding that as yet, we haven't found two people with exactly the same fingerprints where the fingerprint evidence was essential. There is strong evidence to suggest that the incidence of two people having identical finger prints is incredibly small, but only on the basis that all the recorded fingerprints seem to be different.

I believe the problem is more the accuracy of checking & matching prints.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I'm against it on principle but the main argument, that it's a deterrent, doesn't seem to be the case. The biggest deterrent to any crime is increasing the likelihood of being caught and it would be better to put efforts into that.

 

[icowden]

I'm against it on principle but the main argument, that it's a deterrent, doesn't seem to be the case. The biggest deterrent to any crime is increasing the likelihood of being caught and it would be better to put efforts into that.

Punishment is never a deterrent. The USA has proved this.

To reduce crime, as you say, the biggest factors are mental health, poverty and education. As James Timpson has pointed out, about a 3rd of prisoners really shouldn't be in prison. It isn't helping them. These are usually people with mental health issues, often related to addiction and usually linked to poverty and poor parenting. Quite often it can be generational as the lack of support passes from parent to child.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I think it's sometimes a deterrent. Less so with murder as most murders are spontaneous so thinking through the consequences often doesn't come in to it. The US prison system is so grim that you'd think it would be a big enough deterrent in itself. It obviously isn't so it makes no sense to think capital punishment would be. In the US it's really just a way for society to express it's disgust at really abhorrent crimes. It's so unevenly applied, and so unfairly applied in terms of the quality of legal representation, that it doesn't even work on that level though.

 

[icowden]

I think it's sometimes a deterrent.

Only at a low level. Changing a fine for stealing a loaf of bread to a five year jail sentence isn't going to stop someone stealing a loaf of bread if they are starving. Even the Saudi approach of chopping limbs off only works if the shopkeeper is minded to ensure that the thief is reported - I suspect many would just not report the theft instead or deal with it in other ways. Plus once you go down that route it ends up costing more in healthcare and inability to work.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

In a warped kind of way, the US does have firing squads - "suicide by cop".

No, that is a deliberate choice to die by the person commiting ''suicide by cop'' something which can be done in europe too btw.(just much harder)
Where is the death penalty is a punishment

Punishment is never a deterrent. The USA has proved this.

about a 3rd of prisoners really shouldn't be in prison. It isn't helping them.

Prison and/or death penalty is punishment it was never intended to help.