Does anybody here take the Greens seriously?

[CXRAndy]

Yet statistical figures point to trans(TiMs) have an equal or higher offending for sexual offences than the general male population.

So puffing out her husbands chest is warranted

 

[AuroraSaab]

 

[Ian H]

A friend (cisgender woman) at work showed me something on her phone a week or so ago on a women's forum.

A woman went into a supermarket, and while there decided to use the toilet. There she met a woman who was a trans woman. Somewhat fascinated she struck up a conversation with her.

She said nobody had their sense of their own sex diminished, neither saw the other in any state of undress, no privacy invaded, no dignity lost. She said the person was clearly well-educated and well-spoken. She then surprised herself by asking the trans woman if she would like a coffee, not usually being so bold as to ask a stranger. So they had a coffee together, and she enjoyed the conversation with the person being open to her questions.

On the way home, she considered whether she should tell her husband about the experience. She knew that his first question would be, ''did he have a penis''? Followed by ''did you see it?'' Then followed by the usual male fragile ego question, ''but not as big as mine, right''? She decided that he would see the encounter as an affront to his dignity, which under challenge would be reframed to him saying that his role is to protect his wife, even though he never goes with her to the supermarket because he might miss something on TV.

She completely understood why men like her husband choose to think of trans women as a danger - it's the opportunity to stick out their chest, puff up and pretend to be the supreme protector, even against hypothetical threats.

The husband sounds strangely antediluvian. I've known an old friend since long before she transitioned. She still has the same wide group of friends, male and female. No-one worries about it.

 

[monkers]

View attachment 10499

There you go with your usual ''all trans people with a GRC are predators''. You can back this up with evidence?

You never have managed to before, so I have little expectation of being able to do so now.

In England and Wales the number of trans women imprisoned for predating on cis women is how many? The Ministry of Justice prison data doesn't show a single one.

 

[CXRAndy]

You mean men who believe they're females. Im sure you can find the stats

 

[AuroraSaab]

Consent isn't transferable. Women - and men - can't consent for other women to have men in their single sex spaces. This applies to all men, including the lovely ones you're friends with and the ones from anecdotes. I suggest you guys campaign for mixed sex third spaces so those women who wish to share with men are free to do so, leaving women's single sex spaces for women and girls who don't wish to share with men.

 

[AuroraSaab]

There you go with your usual ''all trans people with a GRC are predators''. You can back this up with evidence?

No mention of GRC's in that cartoon. It's about men failing to understand about the risk men are to women.

All men are men. Men are a risk to women.
Certificates are irrelevant.

In England and Wales the number of trans women imprisoned for predating on cis women is how many? The Ministry of Justice prison data doesn't show a single one.

You're back to your pivoted position of 'You only count as trans if you have a GRC'. Before you used to say 'Saying I'm a woman is enough'. Given that no one is allowed to ask who has a GRC it's an impossible basis on which to assess risk. We do know that trans identifying men offend at the same rate as other men. Saying only those with a GRC are trans allows you to wriggle out of this uncomfortable fact.

 

[Ian H]

I'd prefer just to campaign for less sh!t-stirring.

 

[All uphill]

Back to UBI.

I always assumed that if a person gets, say £16k UBI, then their employer would be able to pay them £16k less. If so then employers NI could go up to help fund UBI.

Have I got the wrong end of the stick?

 

[First Aspect]

Consent isn't transferable. Women - and men - can't consent for other women to have men in their single sex spaces. This applies to all men, including the lovely ones you're friends with and the ones from anecdotes. I suggest you guys campaign for mixed sex third spaces so those women who wish to share with men are free to do so, leaving women's single sex spaces for women and girls who don't wish to share with men.

I suspect that the point wasn't raised with the intention of having a serious discussion on it's merits.

 

[First Aspect]

Consent isn't transferable. Women - and men - can't consent for other women to have men in their single sex spaces. This applies to all men, including the lovely ones you're friends with and the ones from anecdotes. I suggest you guys campaign for mixed sex third spaces so those women who wish to share with men are free to do so, leaving women's single sex spaces for women and girls who don't wish to share with men.

I suspect that the point wasn't raised with the intention of having a serious discussion on it's merits.

 

[AuroraSaab]

We've had a long discussion already. It usually ended with the CycleChat lads telling me that (to paraphrase) men who have made the effort to look like women deserve to be in women's spaces and they personally know a lovely transwoman so they don't really see what women are moaning about, oh and Monkers calling me a c#nt many times over. By comparison Andy's arguments are more compelling.

 

[CXRAndy]

 

[matticus]

We've had a long discussion already.

Yup.

And I know everyone here is a free-thinking individualist, with no need for artificial restrictive barriers, BUT ...
... can we now keep the trans stuff in the trans thread?

Oh, and Don't Feed The Troll. You know it makes sense!

 

[Ianonabike]

can we now keep the trans stuff in the trans thread?

View: https://youtu.be/m_MaJDK3VNE

I'd prefer just to campaign for less sh!t-stirring.

That's going to be a big job, as the forum is full of it.