Donald I, emperor of the world.

[briantrumpet]

Less-well-educated isn't a suggestion, it's shown by the recorded results of various surveys.

In Western democracies, education is not only a potent source of social division but an emergent source of political division. Across Europe, nationalist and populist support comes primarily from the least educated and most green and social liberal party voters are graduates (Bovens and Wille Citation2017). In 2016, Clinton held a 20 percentage point lead over Trump amongst graduates in the United States (PRC, Citation2018) and just 22% of United Kingdom (UK) graduates voted to leave the European Union (EU), compared to 72% of those with no qualifications (Curtice Citationn.d.).

Full article available via here: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17457289.2021.2013247#abstract

 

[Pinno718]

No, I posted a few short responses to people suggesting that Reform voters were thick. Rather than entering into tit for tat and point scoring (apart from Orraloon who deserves it) I thought I'd try to illicit some constructive replies. If you think my asking one simple question is relentlessly pursuing you for evidence then I can't help you. FWIW I agree that political fund raising needs a coat of looking at, not convinced on PR however.

I have never really promoted proportional representation as I think that that has inherent flaws too. The current past the post system is the best of bad worlds (figuratively speaking).
I referenced 'sealioning' only as it seemed that you were deflecting by chucking a question back at a question.
Anyway, what do you think of Reform voters in all honesty. I personally think that the Farage followers are the one's swayed by populism. I think people are getting frustrated by what they see as inaction as political decisions in the UK (like anywhere) has to go through democratic process, starting with papers assigned to Whitehall and then progressing to the House of Commons and the House of Lords. I can imagine that so many political decisions are riddled with caveats, making them very difficult. This is all very slow, processional and ultimately uninteresting when they (the populists) want quick fixes.
Trump, by bypassing the proper processes (war, deportations. ICE, self promotion) appeals to the populists as they see immediate change with an apparent transparency even if the changes are unconstitutional and often illegal.
Project 2025 architects have seen this and capitalised on it to promote their agenda. The agenda is at the expense of the average citizen but they don't care. It suits knee jerk responses magnified by hype and often disinformation, lies ostensibly (UKIP/Reform?).

 

[Pinno718]

Back OT: Iran claims to have hacked the Whitehouse and have gathered 100gb of internal communication.

 

[briantrumpet]

Perhaps. The challenge for the established parties is to win them over with policies that meet some of their needs. Talking down to them and dismissing them as xenophobic thickos didn't help win the EU referendum did it?

Labour's not doing that now, but it's certainly a challenge to win over the less well-educated with complex, nuanced messages, which is why populist 'easy' solutions such as blaming the EU and foreigners for all our woes are a relatively easier sell to those whose capacity to take in a lot of conflicting ideas is limited.

 

[briantrumpet]

Back OT: Iran claims to have hacked the Whitehouse and have gathered 100gb of internal communication.

That I'm thinking, maybe naughtily, "This could be interesting!", shows how far the Whitehouse has fallen in such a short space of time.

 

[briantrumpet]

I mean, it's mean of low-paid US workers to complain. Surely $7.25ph is more than enough for poor people, as they haven't got to shell out for weddings in Venice.... they should be grateful to work for someone like Bezos ($234bn)

 

[Shortfall]

I have never really promoted proportional representation as I think that that has inherent flaws too. The current past the post system is the best of bad worlds (figuratively speaking).
I referenced 'sealioning' only as it seemed that you were deflecting by chucking a question back at a question.
Anyway, what do you think of Reform voters in all honesty. I personally think that the Farage followers are the one's swayed by populism. I think people are getting frustrated by what they see as inaction as political decisions in the UK (like anywhere) has to go through democratic process, starting with papers assigned to Whitehall and then progressing to the House of Commons and the House of Lords. I can imagine that so many political decisions are riddled with caveats, making them very difficult. This is all very slow, processional and ultimately uninteresting when they (the populists) want quick fixes.
Trump, by bypassing the proper processes (war, deportations. ICE, self promotion) appeals to the populists as they see immediate change with an apparent transparency even if the changes are unconstitutional and often illegal.
Project 2025 architects have seen this and capitalised on it to promote their agenda. The agenda is at the expense of the average citizen but they don't care. It suits knee jerk responses magnified by hype and often disinformation, lies ostensibly (UKIP/Reform?).

I think that that Labour gave up on it's working class base in pursuit of votes from well off metropolitan liberals and the Conservatives were just really shît and fuücked everything up. So Reform have filled the gap. Whether they will deliver for their voters remain a to be seen (probably not) but if I was an unemployed welder in Middlesborough and I'd been let down and ignored by Labour and the Conservatives for decades I'd probably think Farage was worth a punt.

 

[Pblakeney]

The challenge for the established parties is to win them over with policies that meet some of their needs.

People's needs are very often at complete odds to their wants.
People voting for populists promising unicorns will always end up disappointed. They then vote for the next set of unicorn promises.

 

[Pinno718]

I think that that Labour gave up on it's working class base in pursuit of votes from well off metropolitan liberals and the Conservatives were just really shît and fuücked everything up. So Reform have filled the gap. Whether they will deliver for their voters remain a to be seen (probably not) but if I was an unemployed welder in Middlesborough and I'd been let down and ignored by Labour and the Conservatives for decades I'd probably think Farage was worth a punt.

Labour gave up on it's working class base way back during Blair's campaign. He (and Mandelson) appealed to the middle classes - 'education. education, education'? and X numbers of people going for degrees (hence the proliferation of mickey mouse degrees).
I think, that this was because their link with Unions was seen to be toxic and a sword the Tories made them fall repetitively on coupled with the undeniable fact that the (working) working class base had dwindled through our continued loss of industry. I do not think that Labour has managed since that time to evolve into a party that has a clear identity - one that people can identify with. The current Tory party are now in a similar hole that's even deeper.
This opens the door to the populist vote but an odd and inexplicable lack of media coverage exists for the Liberal Democrats who are much bigger than Reform - 72 seats in parliament as opposed to just 4. You can't blame Ed Davey for jumping in Windemere.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Labour gave up on it's working class base way back during Blair's campaign. He (and Mandelson) appealed to the middle classes - 'education. education, education'? and X numbers of people going for degrees (hence the proliferation of mickey mouse degrees).
I think, that this was because their link with Unions was seen to be toxic and a sword the Tories made them fall repetitively on coupled with the undeniable fact that the (working) working class base had dwindled through our continued loss of industry. I do not think that Labour has managed since that time to evolve into a party that has a clear identity - one that people can identify with. The current Tory party are now in a similar hole that's even deeper.
This opens the door to the populist vote but an odd and inexplicable lack of media coverage exists for the Liberal Democrats who are much bigger than Reform - 72 seats in parliament as opposed to just 4. You can't blame Ed Davey for jumping in Windemere.

OT……Largely agree but mickey mouse degrees were around long before the Blair government. The loss of the Polytechnics, when they all became universities during the Major years I think was largely to blame.

 

[Pinno718]

OT……Largely agree but mickey mouse degrees were around long before the Blair government. The loss of the Polytechnics, when they all became universities during the Major years I think was largely to blame.

Indeed. Poly's were great instructions. My brother went to NELP and did a degree in surveying.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Indeed. Poly's were great instructions. My brother went to NELP and did a degree in surveying.

I went to a Poly which became a Uni during my studies. I preferred it as a Poly.

 

[icowden]

Back OT: Iran claims to have hacked the Whitehouse and have gathered 100gb of internal communication.

Unfortunately 99% of it is trump rambling on or his staff trying to work out how to give him intelligence via Fox News and picture books.

 

[Dorset Boy]

It would really help if the liberal metropolitans stopped calling those less educated as themselves as 'thickos'.
It shows a real ignorance of the situation those less well off have found themselves in over the last 30 years.

 

[Pross]

Back OT: Iran claims to have hacked the Whitehouse and have gathered 100gb of internal communication.

They going to be disappointed (and possibly physically ill) when they find it’s Donnie’s home video collection