EU & Brexit Bunker

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briantrumpet

briantrumpet

Timewaster
Well worth a read - a fairly downbeat piece from a pro-Rejoiner. tl;dr Smith thinks that an EFTA-type relationship would be part of the process, but even that's probably quite a long way off. So far, none of the politicians are facing up to realities, or even wanting to discuss the EU properly.

https://rolandmcs.substack.com/p/on-rejoin

Most people reading this who are familiar with Britain’s political culture and history will recognise that these challenges in reaching ‘a springboard to rejoin’ (and then rejoining) look eye-wateringly huge. This is why some commentators predict we will never rejoin, or say it is probably three or four decades away. I am one of these people.

What I would suggest is that UK politics leans into Brexit to some extent and takes time to tackle our domestic arrangements and shortcomings. In short, we need to ‘get our own house in order’ before applying to join again. There is a fair amount to reform, including the central-local government relationship and the First-Past-The-Post voting system. The latter may even lead to more European politics.

So by all means, make Rejoin an ultimate objective but it needs a heavy dose of realism, lots of time/patience, and dare I say it, some trade-offs along the journey.

Any less and I fear that Rejoiners are simply running towards a knock-out punch - the punch of a Cummings-esque Stay Out campaign that will say hourly that ‘we will have to join the euro’ and ‘we will lose all control over immigration again’. We are not ready for that and will lose.

Rejoin needs some serious realism. And after ten years, I still don’t see it.
 
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briantrumpet

briantrumpet

Timewaster
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Beebo

Legendary Member
Not sure where to put this story.
But I was chatting with our cleaner today. (I know it’s very middle class, but it’s only 3 hours once a fortnight)
She is Lithuanian. Her daughter was born here and has just finished GCSEs. She tried hard to get a summer job but couldn’t find anything. She even applied to charity shops for free.
So she’s flown to Lithuania to get a summer job and is staying with her uncle / grandparents. Apparently her language skills aren’t great but she knows enough to get by, and found a job easily.
 
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briantrumpet

briantrumpet

Timewaster
Not sure where to put this story.
But I was chatting with our cleaner today. (I know it’s very middle class, but it’s only 3 hours once a fortnight)
She is Lithuanian. Her daughter was born here and has just finished GCSEs. She tried hard to get a summer job but couldn’t find anything. She even applied to charity shops for free.
So she’s flown to Lithuania to get a summer job and is staying with her uncle / grandparents. Apparently her language skills aren’t great but she knows enough to get by, and found a job easily.

I wonder if that's anything to do with the Right To Work in the UK. I've no idea how that works, but Exeter University are extremely strict about it.
 

C R

Squire
She was born in UK. I presume that gives her rights to work here?

Only children of immigrants with indefinite leave to remain or naturalised get British citizenship at birth. Before Brexit most EU citizens did not apply for ILR, because they didn't need it, so their children born here are not automatically British.
 

PurplePenguin

Über Member
Only children of immigrants with indefinite leave to remain or naturalised get British citizenship at birth. Before Brexit most EU citizens did not apply for ILR, because they didn't need it, so their children born here are not automatically British.

That's a relatively recent change though.
 

Pross

Guru
Not sure where to put this story.
But I was chatting with our cleaner today. (I know it’s very middle class, but it’s only 3 hours once a fortnight)
She is Lithuanian. Her daughter was born here and has just finished GCSEs. She tried hard to get a summer job but couldn’t find anything. She even applied to charity shops for free.
So she’s flown to Lithuania to get a summer job and is staying with her uncle / grandparents. Apparently her language skills aren’t great but she knows enough to get by, and found a job easily.

You talk to the domestic help? How very liberal. I hope you make sure you deduct talking time from her wages at least?
 
Not sure where to put this story.
But I was chatting with our cleaner today. (I know it’s very middle class, but it’s only 3 hours once a fortnight)
She is Lithuanian. Her daughter was born here and has just finished GCSEs. She tried hard to get a summer job but couldn’t find anything. She even applied to charity shops for free.
So she’s flown to Lithuania to get a summer job and is staying with her uncle / grandparents. Apparently her language skills aren’t great but she knows enough to get by, and found a job easily.
Yeah on a local facebook i see people defending that sometimes, i don't get it but it's the "we're looking for an 18 with 6 years experience in a similar role" kind of thing.
I wonder if that's anything to do with the Right To Work in the UK. I've no idea how that works, but Exeter University are extremely strict about it.
No she would get settled status from her parents, just as my children have gotten.

She was born in UK. I presume that gives her rights to work here?
Born is not the same as having the British nationality, there are other factors, like the nationality of the parents.
 
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briantrumpet

briantrumpet

Timewaster
Even with all the caveats, I couldn't ignore this for Wales. Well worth a read, unless you want to pretend nothing has changed.

https://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/thinking-wales/from-leave-to-rejoin-welsh-public-opinion-ten-years-on/

"The voter flow data shows where this majority comes from. 2016 Remain voters have held together remarkably well: 90% of them would vote Rejoin. Leave voters, by contrast, have fractured. Two-thirds (66%) would vote to stay out, but a full quarter (25%) would now vote to rejoin the EU. Add in those who didn’t or couldn’t vote in 2016 — a group that skews young and heavily pro-Rejoin — and the arithmetic of the new majority becomes clear: it is built on Remain loyalty, generational replacement, and Leave defection, in that order."

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Beebo

Legendary Member
Even with all the caveats, I couldn't ignore this for Wales. Well worth a read, unless you want to pretend nothing has changed.

https://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/thinking-wales/from-leave-to-rejoin-welsh-public-opinion-ten-years-on/

"The voter flow data shows where this majority comes from. 2016 Remain voters have held together remarkably well: 90% of them would vote Rejoin. Leave voters, by contrast, have fractured. Two-thirds (66%) would vote to stay out, but a full quarter (25%) would now vote to rejoin the EU. Add in those who didn’t or couldn’t vote in 2016 — a group that skews young and heavily pro-Rejoin — and the arithmetic of the new majority becomes clear: it is built on Remain loyalty, generational replacement, and Leave defection, in that order."

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We aren’t going to rejoin for at least 10 years.
And if we do, the terms of joining will be far worse for than the ones we had when we left.

The whole point thing has been a complete waste of 20 years of economic development.
 
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