EU & Brexit Bunker

[briantrumpet]

You could say that for everything though, including the decision to join the Common Market. It's how it works.

True to an extent, but the Brexit vote was taking away rights (and citizenship) of individuals born with them, so is rather different from a political change per se.

 

[UglyWithaSidePart]

You could say that for everything though, including the decision to join the Common Market. It's how it works.

Joining the common market didn't take anything away from anyone.

 

[briantrumpet]

Joining the common market didn't take anything away from anyone.

Don't forget 'sovereignty'. Thank god we've got that back... it's made the world of difference.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Joining the common market didn't take anything away from anyone.

It was a long term decision made by an older generation that mostly affected those too young to vote. Same as Brexit. Seeing as the EU morphed into a very different thing than what was voted on, some would argue that it did eventually involved conceding some control, ie took away sovreignity. The point is all voting invariably involves one cohort making decisions that will eventually affect others more than themselves because kids can't vote and n one lives forever. Unless we all sit with a button to press and vote on things every other week, that's how things work.

 

[UglyWithaSidePart]

What are you talking about? Took away 'sovereignty', it's like we've learned nothing. We didn't relinquish sovereignty, we just opened our horizons.

 

[Psamathe]

... some would argue that it did eventually involved conceding some control, ie took away sovreignity.

Weird thing is, if we really did lose any sovereignty to other EU states, we also gained some sovereignty over those same EU states.

 

[briantrumpet]

What are you talking about? Took away 'sovereignty', it's like we've learned nothing. We didn't relinquish sovereignty, we just opened our horizons.

'Regaining' it always was mostly a mirage in any case, in a trading world where meeting international standards are prerequisites for selling into most large markets: 'sovereignty' means you can ignore those standards, but you won't get into those markets, so it's a mostly worthless freedom, in business terms, unless you are aiming for the mythical autarkic (closed) market and thence national poverty.

 

[AuroraSaab]

What are you talking about? Took away 'sovereignty', it's like we've learned nothing. We didn't relinquish sovereignty, we just opened our horizons.

Most of us would say that relinquishing some control - over immigration or industrial standards for example - was the price we had to pay to gain the benefits of what became the EU. You can't really deny we did lose some control though, as did every country who joined the Common Market/EU. It was the cost of 'opening up our horizons'.

 

[Ian H]

An agreement to cooperate, but entirely reversible should we decide (as we did) to leave.

 

[Pblakeney]

'Regaining' it always was mostly a mirage in any case, in a trading world where meeting international standards are prerequisites for selling into most large markets: 'sovereignty' means you can ignore those standards, but you won't get into those markets, so it's a mostly worthless freedom, in business terms, unless you are aiming for the mythical autarkic (closed) market and thence national poverty.

For reference, see the current state of the US.

 

[briantrumpet]

For reference, see the current state of the US.

And remembering the post-Brexit trade 'deal' they offered the UK was basically to trash a pile of food safety standards, amongst other things, so they could flood the UK market with junk food, in return for... hmm, not sure. That's Sovereignty, Folks!

 

[briantrumpet]

This is how 'sovereignty' really works. Even when you're as big as the EU.

 

[FishFright]

And remembering the post-Brexit trade 'deal' they offered the UK was basically to trash a pile of food safety standards, amongst other things, so they could flood the UK market with junk food, in return for... hmm, not sure. That's Sovereignty, Folks!

The belief that we could demand stronger trade deals alone completely bamboozled me .

 

[Pblakeney]

This is how 'sovereignty' really works. Even when you're as big as the EU.

View attachment 17837

"Play nice, or else."
Which is precisely why we shouldn't play nice. And actually act like a sovereign nation.