Excellent Interview

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AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
How can they change the direction of the 'sinking and disintegrating' ship if noone will vote for them as Captain? Whatever Labour were selling last time, the public didn't want it. If wearing a suit instead of a slogan t shirt gets you elected, surely that's a good thing?
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
AuroraSaab said:
How can they change the direction of the 'sinking and disintegrating' ship if noone will vote for them as Captain? Whatever Labour were selling last time, the public didn't want it. If wearing a suit instead of a slogan t shirt gets you elected, surely that's a good thing?
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I thought we'd cleared up it was Corbyn himself wasn't it ?
Policies....things that matter to some of us.Starmer should've gone for unity as he campaigned for originally, rather than going out of his way to make enemies of those on the left of the party.
Should I ignore this for the sake of an election that may not occur for two years?
I find him dull,a snake oil salesman with very little to offer me,I'd have to really hold my nose to vote for him.
 
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AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
That's the point though, isn't it? The wider electorate might be willing to hold their noses and vote for Starmer when there was no way they'd hold their nose and vote for a Corbyn led Labour. For many of us every election is a case of 'Who's the least worst option?'.

I thought the mini interview that Owen Jones did at the conference with Jess Phillips was interesting. He was moaning about 200k (?) members leaving the party and she was talking about being pragmatic and 'you can't do anything if you're not elected'.
 
theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
AuroraSaab said:
That's the point though, isn't it? The wider electorate might be willing to hold their noses and vote for Starmer when there was no way they'd hold their nose and vote for a Corbyn led Labour. For many of us every election is a case of 'Who's the least worst option?'.

I thought the mini interview that Owen Jones did at the conference with Jess Phillips was interesting. He was moaning about 200k (?) members leaving the party and she was talking about being pragmatic and 'you can't do anything if you're not elected'.
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'Moaning'.

I acknowledge that Jones can be annoying, but shrugging your shoulders and laughing when your party is haemorrhaging members because of its leadership is not the behaviour of a serious politician. I know Centrism is a helluva drug and a lot of people can't or won't get to grips with the fact that the 90s are over, but are you not even a teensy bit worried that technocrats and authoritarians who are prepared to take a wrecking ball to party democracy might take a similar approach to the public as they do to their members?
 
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AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
Didn't research show that the vast majority of people who joined the Labour Party were middle class Londoners who lived in already safe seats? You don't win general elections by adding more votes in already safe seats. If these are the ones leaving the effect on the number of seats will be negligible.

Owen Jones is more than annoying. He's a hypocritical misogynist. He couldn't dump Corbyn as leader quick enough once he realised he'd backed a loser. He imagines that everybody to the right of Momentum are Right Wing and that simply isn't the case.

No, it doesn't worry me at all. Not even a teensy bit. Seems an unlikely outcome, though of course you have to be in power for that to be a concern in the first place. I'd probably want to sort that bit first.

I think we've established that the country doesn't want Corbyn. Would you rather have a Labour government who implement 10% of Corbyn's policies, or a Labour Party in opposition implementing 0%?
 
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dutchguylivingintheuk

dutchguylivingintheuk

Ãœber Member
cookiemonster said:
Jeremy Corbyn interviwed by Novara. I can't fault anything he said IMO. I'll just leave it here so you can make up your own minds.

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Just watched the whole interview, ok it is better then those interviews where the interviewer in constantly interrupts, but it wasn't an real interview either, more an hours and a half Corbyn speaks, he was not challenged.
A misconception a read above is Corbyn doesn't really want to nationalise rail, eletricity and everything he wants to make it community owned, which i think can work out great for eletricity, and/or gas alternatives but i don't see that really work for trains etc.
All in all it's not wonder he never became it but it's an pity he could'nt make it harder on the tories, some of his idea's are good and some of them not at all. all subject to my opinion offcourse.
 
theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
AuroraSaab said:
Didn't research show that the vast majority of people who joined the Labour Party were middle class Londoners who lived in already safe seats? You don't win general elections by adding more votes in already safe seats. If these are the ones leaving the effect on the number of seats will be negligible.

Owen Jones is more than annoying. He's a hypocritical misogynist. He couldn't dump Corbyn as leader quick enough once he realised he'd backed a loser. He imagines that everybody to the right of Momentum are Right Wing and that simply isn't the case.

No, it doesn't worry me at all. Not even a teensy bit. Seems an unlikely outcome, though of course you have to be in power for that to be a concern in the first place. I'd probably want to sort that bit first.

I think we've established that the country doesn't want Corbyn. Would you rather have a Labour government who implement 10% of Corbyn's policies, or a Labour Party in opposition implementing 0%?
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OMG wait til you hear about the demographics of the other parties.

I realise that contempt for the internal democracy of the largest political party in Europe passes as a respectable position in the UK mainstream, but it's funny how everyone suddenly got furiously interested in it for only as long as it took to manufacture a crisis to destroy the previous leadership (to which they were already hostile). I'll leave you to your speculation and complete indifference to what's going on, as you can't reason with people who just make stuff up. And anyway, it's understandable that no one who hasn't witnessed the astonishing spectacle of a terrified branch hierarchy closing ranks against a massive influx of energised and optimistic young supporters can't really grasp what a shower of shit these people are.
 
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Rusty Nails

Rusty Nails

Country Member
theclaud said:
OMG wait til you hear about the demographics of the other parties.

I realise that contempt for the internal democracy of the largest political party in Europe passes as a respectable position in the UK mainstream, but it's funny how everyone suddenly got furiously interested in it for only as long as it took to manufacture a crisis to destroy the previous leadership (to which they were already hostile). I'll leave you to your speculation and complete indifference to what's going on, as you can't reason with people who just make stuff up. And anyway, it's understandable that no one who hasn't witnessed the astonishing spectacle of a terrified branch hierarchy closing ranks against a massive influx of energised and optimistic young supporters can't really grasp what a shower of shit these people are.
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Not so energised and optimistic that they didn't jump ship as soon as it looked like it was going to be a bit of hard work with some setbacks along the way to change a party with such a long history. Revolution is a helluva drug, but the effects don't last long.

Many of that "shower of sh*t" in branches had been party members actively working for the Labour Party as long as Corbyn and were unlikely to be impressed by people just because of their youth and impatience to seize what they saw as their main chance.

At least Corbyn was in for the long haul, waiting 32 years for his chance.
 
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AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
Rusty explains it better than I, but yes, the people you call a shower of sh*t are the folk who were out leafleting and knocking on doors since Labour were last in power. ie a very long time.

The new members you admire so much weren't actually interested in doing the leg work it seems. And when they didn't get what they wanted straight away they didn't stick around to fight for it.

"When it comes to offline participation, however, there is a striking difference: new members are plainly not as keen to get stuck in. While a third (31%) of the old members attended a public meeting during the GE campaign, less than a sixth of new members did so during the campaign for the 2016 local/regional/mayoral elections (15%). Although less was presumably at stake in 2016 than 2015, an even wider gap is registered when looking at activities such as leafletting (42.5% vs. 16%), displaying election posters (51% vs 26%) or – most notably of all – canvassing voters (35.7% vs 9.3%).

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/explaining-the-pro-corbyn-surge-in-labours-membership/
 
theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
LOL yeah we all remember Jess Phillips famously knocking on 25,000 doors in the six weeks of the 2017 election.
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Rusty Nails said:
Not so energised and optimistic that they didn't jump ship as soon as it looked like it was going to be a bit of hard work with some setbacks along the way to change a party with such a long history. Revolution is a helluva drug, but the effects don't last long.

Many of that "shower of sh*t" in branches had been party members actively working for the Labour Party as long as Corbyn and were unlikely to be impressed by people just because of their youth and impatience to seize what they saw as their main chance.

At least Corbyn was in for the long haul, waiting 32 years for his chance.
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In it for the long haul ? He's one of a handful of MP that deserves reconigtion for what he's done and been through.
I get the Corbyn has gone move on.But it's infuriating watching the Labour Files/AlJazeera documentary about the Labour Party staff and MPs who went against party members who supported Corbyn.Whatever you think of him it's a discrace and it should say far more about them than it does about him.
 
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