F*ck the Tories: a Thread Dedicated to Suella Braverman

[Bromptonaut]

Was going to post this as an addition to the Dories thread but on reflection Suella, another minister who's as as thick as pig sh*t, deserves one of her own:

https://www.theguardian.com/society...t-have-to-accommodate-childrens-gender-wishes

I am not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure she's totally off beam saying that the requirement to be 18 to get a Gender Recognition Certificate means minors cannot choose their own gender identity. In fact they would need to have done so to meet the Gender Recognition Act's requirement to have lived a period of time in their adopted gender if they were to obtain a certificate at 18.

 

[Ian H]

She's not thick. She has little respect for for the traditional role of Attorney-General and is more than willing to subvert the law for party-political ends. It's what right-wing populist governments around the world are doing.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I don't want to turn this into another discussion on women's rights and transgender issues as we've done that to death. Anybody can choose their own gender identity - it's a feeling in your head, and many people, like me, don't believe in the notion of gender identity. Gender identity is not a protected characteristic under the Equality Act though and schools have no obligation to accommodate pupils in their chosen gender identity. They do have an obligation under the Education Act to provide single sex spaces like toilets and changing rooms though.

There is an obligation not to discriminate against transgender pupils but this doesn't override the single sex exemptions of the Equality Act. If they want to, schools can accommodate children's wishes to change their name or wear what uniform they wish but they are not obliged to allow them to do so, or to use the girls toilets and changing rooms if they are a biological male.

Do you think a 16 year old male bodied pupil should be allowed to change with the girls for PE or sleep in the girls dorm at school camp? Or play on the girls rugby team because their gender identity is female?

You can be whatever gender identity you like. You can't expect other people to be obligated to recognise it, though they can support you if they wish, which is what most schools do.

 

[newfhouse]

I don't want to turn this into another discussion on women's rights and transgender issues

Probably for the best. As I read it the thread is about another minister chosen for her ability to say “Yes Boss” rather than for any skill or competence.

 

[Xipe Totec]

It's just more Culture Wars red meat, nothing whatsoever to do with any 'debate' about gender identity.

Stop giving them what they want.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The enshrining of self id with regards to gender identity has important implications for women's rights and child safe guarding. You can hand wave it away as culture war nonsense if you like, but it matters to many people. Unfortunately, the left have given the Tories an open goal on women's rights with this issue. Stella Creasy was doing her bit to alienate voters the other day, for example.

 

[Mugshot]

The enshrining of self id with regards to gender identity has important implications for women's rights and child safe guarding. You can hand wave it away as culture war nonsense if you like, but it matters to many people. Unfortunately, the left have given the Tories an open goal on women's rights with this issue. Stella Creasy was doing her bit to alienate voters the other day, for example.

View: https://twitter.com/aidThompsin/status/1530626108642705409?t=F4WcHrEZ9FDJmdf6EIMLIQ&s=19

 

[AndyRM]

Gallows humour at its finest!

 

[AuroraSaab]

Most gender critical feminists are politically left leaning. They won't vote Tory. But they are not going to turn out for Labour either. And why should they when so many Labour politicians would happily dismantle the rights that women fought so long to acquire?

The fact that half the Labour Party can't coherently explain what a woman is might be a big joke to you guys, but if you can't accurately identify sex, you can't identify sexism. I won't support a party that is working against my interests so I'll be staying home at the next election. Still, it's not like Labour need my vote so I'm sure it'll be fine...

 

[newfhouse]

I don't want to turn this into another discussion on women's rights and transgender issues as we've done that to death.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I don't, but if you gentlemen keep waving away women's rights as some sort of insignificant and minor irrelevancy that female voters should just ignore it's a bit much to expect that to go unchallenged.

 

[newfhouse]

I don't, but if you gentlemen keep waving away women's rights as some sort of insignificant and minor irrelevancy that female voters should just ignore it's a bit much to expect that to go unchallenged.

Who has done that in this thread or elsewhere on the forum?

 

[Xipe Totec]

I don't, but if you gentlemen keep waving away women's rights as some sort of insignificant and minor irrelevancy that female voters should just ignore it's a bit much to expect that to go unchallenged.

I don't know if this is what you're referring to, but I made this point:

It's just more Culture Wars red meat, nothing whatsoever to do with any 'debate' about gender identity.

Stop giving them what they want.

...in order to point out that the Conservative politician and right-wing culture warrior Suella Braverman is not engaged in attempting to provoke thoughtful and measured discussion on gender recognition, womens' rights and the trans debate in general. What she's doing is trying to whip up anger, resentment and division, aware as she is that this can be a highly polarising topic for people on the Left.

 

[theclaud]

Most gender critical feminists are politically left leaning.

'Leaning' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there...

 

[Bromptonaut]

I don't, but if you gentlemen keep waving away women's rights as some sort of insignificant and minor irrelevancy that female voters should just ignore it's a bit much to expect that to go unchallenged.

I don't think any of the gentlemen here have done any waving away in the sense of airily dismiss.

There is though more nuance to the issue than either the 'GC' feminists or the militant trans wing would have us believe. It would also help if the media, or at least those wanting to be taken seriously didn't try and kebab politicians by asking them what a woman is.