Gender again. Sorry!

[Rusty Nails]

Apropos of nothing, I have found myself idly wondering if the Great Culture War has progressed to the point where trans women have now replaced cyclists as the soceital subgroup that are As Bad If Not Worse Than Paedophiles.

Wait until people hear about the Trans US and Trans Continental Cycle races!

 

[classic33]

Were there not enough overlooked women in history? If the author wanted to include the gender non conforming there are loads of women who had to pretend to be male in order to follow their chosen career. If they wanted to include a female born person who lived as a male, they could have included musician Billy Tipton.

How did Shakespeare manage in Twelfth Night?
He'd men playing the parts of women pretending to be men!

 

[AuroraSaab]

Is this the same Caitlin Jenner that said that(backtracking on her previous stance) when she was running for the Office of Governor for California. The same Caitlin Jenner that you've previously said shouldn't be allowed to take part in women's sport?

Pandering to the electorate was how her backtracking was seen.

I'm not aware Jenner has backtracked on their view yet. They've always been Republican so I doubt they felt the need to say something they didn't believe for more support . I don't think Jenner should be in the women's class in sports, though I understand they do play in women's amateur golf comps.

How did Shakespeare manage in Twelfth Night?
He'd men playing the parts of women pretending to be men!

... because women weren't allowed to act.

Jesus Christ

Was he in the first Rejected Princesses book or the second?

 

[winjim]

I did post, pages back, about thousands of years of third genderism in Hindu culture. Trans people are not a new phenomenon.

Yeah, other cultures have been mentioned before. But an interesting point is that if your culture doesn't recognise the sex / gender binary classification then it's potentially not transgenderism, it's something else. Jason Porath brings this up in the notes for his Finds Them And Kills Them biography in RP.

A Note on The Term “Two Spirit”​

Two Spirit is a term likely to trip up a lot of people. Virtually all Native American tribes subscribe to the idea of more than two genders, encompassing identities such as women born as men and vice versa, as well as homosexual, pansexual, and asexual people and the like. “Two Spirit” is most closely analogous to “transgender,” but it’s not a direct synonym and should not be used in this case, as many Two Spirits take exception to being lumped under, or appropriated by, the term “transgender.”​

 

[classic33]

I'm not aware Jenner has backtracked on their view yet. They've always been Republican so I doubt they felt the need to say something they didn't believe for more support . I don't think Jenner should be in the women's class in sports, though I understand they do play in women's amateur golf comps.


... because women weren't allowed to act.



Was he in the first Rejected Princesses book or the second?

The American press seemed to feel she was backtracking.
Caitlyn Jenner says transgender girls in women's sports is 'unfair'
Jenner changed her position on trans people competing in sports in what some are calling an effort to pander to Republican voters."

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...nsgender-girls-women-s-sports-unfair-n1266138

From the first link, there's plenty more out there. I searched her name and California Governor.

There is a plus to this, you're accepting her as a woman.

 

[monkers]

I'm reminded. Auditions available for these parts from within the thread.


View: https://youtu.be/PDBiLT3LASk

 

[AuroraSaab]

The American press seemed to feel she was backtracking.
Caitlyn Jenner says transgender girls in women's sports is 'unfair'
Jenner changed her position on trans people competing in sports in what some are calling an effort to pander to Republican voters."

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...nsgender-girls-women-s-sports-unfair-n1266138

From the first link, there's plenty more out there. I searched her name and California Governor.

There is a plus to this, you're accepting her as a woman.

I've never seen Jenner speak out as pro-transwoman inclusion, which you would think they would have if they were in favour. You could certainly argue the toss about they themselves playing in amateur sports in the female category but denying other transwomen the opportunity to play in the female category at Pro level.

I don't think Caitlin Jenner is a woman. I do think they genuinely suffer from gender/body dysphoria though.

 

[Unkraut]

If the CofE's "defining documents" are the clear voice of God, then the CofE re-defining those documents would be God re-speaking and re-speaking clearly, clearly.

Part of the C of E is committing apostasy.

It was supposed to be this one.

Thanks for the clip. What Toksvig fails to take into account is a different worldview is operating in the believing part of the C of E. Before complaining at the Bishop of Blackburn being guitly of misogyny she ought to find out why he thinks the way he does.

Her lumping the C of E bishops with the Mullahs of Iran at least shows she has a good sense of humour.

Incidentally an amendment to legislation committing the govt to support the traditional family during I believe Jack Straw's time was voted down in the Lords with the votes of 9 Anglican bishops; it would have passed otherwise. It is a piece of folly the bishops will one have to give an account for.

Interestingly there seems to be doubt over the meaning of the original Hebrew, with some scholars suggesting it's about incest rather than homosexuality.

וְאֶ֨ת־זָכָ֔ר לֹ֥א תִשְׁכַּ֖ב מִשְׁכְּבֵ֣י אִשָּׁ֑ה תֹּועֵבָ֖ה הִֽוא׃

Well there it is! There is no problem with the translation a male must not lie with a male as with a woman. This gives a clue as why this is 'detestable' in the sight of God - a man is trying to be something, namely a woman, which he is not. Health and happiness lie in being and doing what you were created for.

Incest is dealt with separately.

You may be getting confused with a film being made that will attempt to say the 1946 edition of the Revised Standard Version incorrectly translated a phrase in the NT including the word homosexuals. It's nonsense - the underlying Greek is based on the Greek translation of the above Hebrew and is perfectly clear. You read it here first!

If there is no God (Psalm 14 : 1) then all this can be safely ignored, at least from a moral point of view; but if there is then transgender activists have declared war on their Creator, a war they cannot possibly win.

 

[monkers]

Part of the C of E is committing apostasy.

Thanks for the clip. What Toksvig fails to take into account is a different worldview is operating in the believing part of the C of E. Before complaining at the Bishop of Blackburn being guitly of misogyny she ought to find out why he thinks the way he does.

Her lumping the C of E bishops with the Mullahs of Iran at least shows she has a good sense of humour.

Incidentally an amendment to legislation committing the govt to support the traditional family during I believe Jack Straw's time was voted down in the Lords with the votes of 9 Anglican bishops; it would have passed otherwise. It is a piece of folly the bishops will one have to give an account for.

וְאֶ֨ת־זָכָ֔ר לֹ֥א תִשְׁכַּ֖ב מִשְׁכְּבֵ֣י אִשָּׁ֑ה תֹּועֵבָ֖ה הִֽוא׃

Well there it is! There is no problem with the translation a male must not lie with a male as with a woman. This gives a clue as why this is 'detestable' in the sight of God - a man is trying to be something, namely a woman, which he is not. Health and happiness lie in being and doing what you were created for.

Incest is dealt with separately.

You may be getting confused with a film being made that will attempt to say the 1946 edition of the Revised Standard Version incorrectly translated a phrase in the NT including the word homosexuals. It's nonsense - the underlying Greek is based on the Greek translation of the above Hebrew and is perfectly clear. You read it here first!

If there is no God (Psalm 14 : 1) then all this can be safely ignored, at least from a moral point of view; but if there is then transgender activists have declared war on their Creator, a war they cannot possibly win.

I don't know the bible, it's not something I have ever felt the need to engage with. However my view is that this is a subscriber only code. None of it applies to me, none of it can be applied to me by others. None of it can be applied by subscribers to non-subscribers. That's not just UK law, but comes all the way down from the United Nations, as per the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

From my own mix of views, and to the best of my limited knowledge, religions, the first past the post electoral system, and the scare story that trans women are male perverts, all have a common feature; they are all fear-based systems of imposed social control with moral panic messaging in order to make people behave in the way the controllers want. I'm not falling for any of them. Instead I stick to statute, human-made statute, not the ideology of the beliefs and zeal of others.

You do your thing; and I'll do mine.

 

[newfhouse]

all this can be safely ignored

Can I get an Amen?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Both religion and gender identity are matters of personal belief. We shouldn't make laws based on beliefs, only on material reality.

 

[monkers]

Both religion and gender identity are matters of personal belief. We shouldn't make laws based on beliefs, only on material reality.

That word 'democracy' look it up and bookmark it under human rights.

 

[AuroraSaab]

So when the democratically elected government decide to reintroduce the heresy laws that'll be fine then. To be honest, you could replace the word 'transphobe' with 'heretic', it's the same vibe from the people who say it.

It's been a long time since we've based significant laws on a feeling in your head, whether it's a religious soul or a gendered soul. We shouldn't be starting it again.

 

[monkers]

So when the democratically elected government decide to reintroduce the heresy laws that'll be fine then.

It's been a long time since we've based significant laws on a feeling in your head, whether it's a religious soul or a gendered soul. We shouldn't be starting it again.

You didn't look it up did you? You went straight to whataboutery instead. Wanna try again?

I'll save you the trouble: here it is ...

The five primary characteristics of Democracy include Elected Representative, Independent Judiciary, Civil Liberties, Organized Opposition Parties, and the rule of law. These characteristics together help in running a government that reflects the desires and needs of the citizens.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I literally have no idea where you're going with this. I'm sure it will be a long and tedious journey though. You might have to go on your own.