Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
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monkers
Legendary Member
If you idiotic enough to believe the headline. I prefer to read the report instead where I read enough detail to make the headline look as if it is sensationalising the numbers. Try reading the article while remembering the 'apples and oranges' rule as you go.
AuroraSaab
Squire
The research document is here.
https://adc.bmj.com/content/early/2025/01/19/archdischild-2024-327992
It says exactly what the article says:
"Between 2011 and 2021, incidence rates of recorded gender dysphoria/incongruence increased from 0.14 (95% CI 0.08 to 0.20) to 4.4 (95% CI 4.1 to 4.7) per 10 000 person years, and from 2014 the rate increased more rapidly in recorded females than males".
That's a 50 fold increase.
If the pattern of this research were repeated nationally it would mean more than 10,000 people aged 18 and under had a diagnosis of gender dysphoria in 2021, equivalent to one child in 1,200. This is a huge increase compared with under 200 children in 2011, which is equivalent to only one in 60,000.
Started off as a small number of children but isn't any more if you look at national figures.
1 in 60,000 to 1 in 1200 is quite a jump.
There are 16,000 people on the Tavistock Centre waiting list alone atm. Not all of these will be under 18 of course, but we aren't talking about tiny numbers.
https://adc.bmj.com/content/early/2025/01/19/archdischild-2024-327992
It says exactly what the article says:
"Between 2011 and 2021, incidence rates of recorded gender dysphoria/incongruence increased from 0.14 (95% CI 0.08 to 0.20) to 4.4 (95% CI 4.1 to 4.7) per 10 000 person years, and from 2014 the rate increased more rapidly in recorded females than males".
That's a 50 fold increase.
If the pattern of this research were repeated nationally it would mean more than 10,000 people aged 18 and under had a diagnosis of gender dysphoria in 2021, equivalent to one child in 1,200. This is a huge increase compared with under 200 children in 2011, which is equivalent to only one in 60,000.
Started off as a small number of children but isn't any more if you look at national figures.
1 in 60,000 to 1 in 1200 is quite a jump.
There are 16,000 people on the Tavistock Centre waiting list alone atm. Not all of these will be under 18 of course, but we aren't talking about tiny numbers.
multitool
Pharaoh
I'm going to repost this, so that Aurora's usual distraction and distortion tactics won't succeed.
Again, the numbers of gender dysphoric children are, as stated, low. The increase in diagnoses is a not indicative of a growth of gender dysphoria, it is indicative of a growth in diagnoses. The two are not the same thing.
And of all the diagnoses made, which is, as stated, low, less than 5% had a prescription for puberty blockers.
That's less than 5% of an already tiny number.
Kind of puts the moral panic into perspective.
AuroraSaab
Squire
One in 1200 isn't low. You'd think it might warrant some analysis.
If it's an increase in diagnosis not an increase in gender dysphoria, where are all the middle aged women taking advantage of the new found opportunity to get a diagnosis? Why is the increase mostly in children, and massively increased in girls?
The number put on a medical pathway would be higher if the waiting lists weren't so long.
The numbers were 5% given puberty blockers, 8% given cross sex hormones BTW.
In the Tavistock's own small study almost all children who were referred there were put on puberty blockers so it's likely that if the appointments were immediate, not a wait of several years in some cases, then there would be a heck of a lot more children on puberty blockers in the UK. 16,000 patients on the Tavistock waiting list currently.
Plus their stats show that almost all children who went on puberty blockers progressed to cross sex hormones.
That's a lot of kids on a medicalised pathway for life when the evidence of benefit is so poor.
If it's an increase in diagnosis not an increase in gender dysphoria, where are all the middle aged women taking advantage of the new found opportunity to get a diagnosis? Why is the increase mostly in children, and massively increased in girls?
The number put on a medical pathway would be higher if the waiting lists weren't so long.
The numbers were 5% given puberty blockers, 8% given cross sex hormones BTW.
In the Tavistock's own small study almost all children who were referred there were put on puberty blockers so it's likely that if the appointments were immediate, not a wait of several years in some cases, then there would be a heck of a lot more children on puberty blockers in the UK. 16,000 patients on the Tavistock waiting list currently.
Plus their stats show that almost all children who went on puberty blockers progressed to cross sex hormones.
That's a lot of kids on a medicalised pathway for life when the evidence of benefit is so poor.
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multitool
Pharaoh
Experts think it is low.
People like you have campaigned to prevent the analysis you now demand.
Seperate discussion
Speculation.
Less than 5% actually.
AuroraSaab
Squire
Low doesn't mean insignificant, especially when you are talking about medicalising children unnecessarily and when the increase in referrals is 50 fold and the increase is primarily amongst under 16's, especially girls.
Any number of children put on a medicalised pathway that has no evidence of being beneficial should be a matter of concern.
We've done this topic to death. It remains a fact that an increasing number of countries are concerned about the rise in numbers amongst children and the unevidenced use of puberty blockers for the reasons I've given above. They've banned them. They wouldn't do this if the numbers were insignificant or if it didn't matter.
Any number of children put on a medicalised pathway that has no evidence of being beneficial should be a matter of concern.
We've done this topic to death. It remains a fact that an increasing number of countries are concerned about the rise in numbers amongst children and the unevidenced use of puberty blockers for the reasons I've given above. They've banned them. They wouldn't do this if the numbers were insignificant or if it didn't matter.
multitool
Pharaoh
Who are you to say it is unnecessary?
No evidence of harm either. No evidence either way.
Oh rly? See also Trump's abortion bans in the US.
CXRAndy
Regular
This is a state issue not federal
AuroraSaab
Squire
Dysphoria resolves without medical or surgical intervention in most young people. Both the Cass review and the reviews done in other countries have found no evidence of benefit to the use of puberty blockers.
Medical intervention with no evidence of benefit is unnecessary treatment.
There is some evidence of harm due to puberty blocker use such as bone health, height, sexual function, but as yet no good quality long term studies. However since when has the benchmark for giving children drugs been 'There's no benefit, but it might not harm you long term... we're not sure.. ...'?
Where else does the NHS give treatment that has no scientific basis for evidence of benefit?
Denmark, Sweden, Norway, UK, France, have all discontinued them. Belgium and the Netherlands are putting them under review. None of these countries look like they are about to ban abortion.
multitool
Pharaoh
Maybe that is why over 92% of people with a diagnosis don't receive hormones or puberty blockers.
Listening to you and your fellow moral panickers anybody would think these drugs are given out freely.
CXRAndy
Regular
They were on NHS You me every other mug paying for an ideology treatment
multitool
Pharaoh
It's weird how when you actually look at the numbers they don't live up to the screaming rhetoric from the 'phobes.
"They are handing out puberty blockers like sweets!"
(less than 5% of diagnosed cases get them)
"Trans athletes are taking over women's sports!"
Turns out that out of 510,000 US NCAA college athletes there are only 10 transgender athletes. Yes...and outrageous 0.00196078%. Something must be done!
https://www.espn.co.uk/college-spor...nt-ncaa-ban-transgender-athletes-women-sports
No wonder Aurora kept posting the same photos
"They are handing out puberty blockers like sweets!"
(less than 5% of diagnosed cases get them)
"Trans athletes are taking over women's sports!"
Turns out that out of 510,000 US NCAA college athletes there are only 10 transgender athletes. Yes...and outrageous 0.00196078%. Something must be done!
https://www.espn.co.uk/college-spor...nt-ncaa-ban-transgender-athletes-women-sports
No wonder Aurora kept posting the same photos
AuroraSaab
Squire
College sports is just one sector of sports. There are hundreds of thousands of other girls and women playing sports in the US at various levels.
Do you have a figure for when unfair advantage does become a problem?
How many drugs assisted wins would you allow before you banned an athlete? It's the same thing. Fairness doesn't depend on numbers.
Same old pictures? Have a new one.
6' 3" trans identifying male Addie Ruter has led their high school Girls basketball team to 2 state championships already and they are 8 to 1 favorites again this year. Ruter's award winning coach says:
"She’s the secret weapon I’ve actually never had in 12 years (as a coach.) Few teams have (players like her). You can’t go to a zone because you’ll shoot lights-out, and if you got to man, she’ll beat you. She’s fast, she’s tall and she can shoot. She does it all and can find the open player. She’s a weapon and I’m happy to have her for two more years.”
View: https://x.com/hecheateddotorg/status/1881406364565553222
This is manifestly unfair. One male athlete affects every girl they play against and the girls whose place they take. Saying 'It's only one' is a deflection and says these girls and women don't matter.
Do you have a figure for when unfair advantage does become a problem?
How many drugs assisted wins would you allow before you banned an athlete? It's the same thing. Fairness doesn't depend on numbers.
Same old pictures? Have a new one.
6' 3" trans identifying male Addie Ruter has led their high school Girls basketball team to 2 state championships already and they are 8 to 1 favorites again this year. Ruter's award winning coach says:
"She’s the secret weapon I’ve actually never had in 12 years (as a coach.) Few teams have (players like her). You can’t go to a zone because you’ll shoot lights-out, and if you got to man, she’ll beat you. She’s fast, she’s tall and she can shoot. She does it all and can find the open player. She’s a weapon and I’m happy to have her for two more years.”
View: https://x.com/hecheateddotorg/status/1881406364565553222
This is manifestly unfair. One male athlete affects every girl they play against and the girls whose place they take. Saying 'It's only one' is a deflection and says these girls and women don't matter.
