Gender again. Sorry!

[multitool]

And this female ex prisoner would disagree with you.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/ex-prisoner-shaking-fear-sharing-29075541?utm_source=app

Dear-oh-dear. Very sloppy, Aurora. You haven't done your due diligence on this one...

Amanda Benson. Imprisoned for glassing another woman and permanently disfiguring her.

But "shaking in fear" of trans women in same prison lol

 

[classic33]

Accommodating female sex offenders in the female estate is how it's been for 200 years. It's a case of a female offender sent to a women's prison, regardless of crime and regardless of how they identify. Which is exactly where they should be. I'd also like all biological males to be in men's prisons, regardless of crime or how they identify. Seems reasonable.

How odd that you think women's prisons don't deal with unpleasant women, and that therefore adding men to the mix won't be a problem.

What were the prison(s) name(s)?

 

[classic33]

There have always been a number of violent females in UK jails and they are successfully accommodated within the female estate (in so much as any prison is successful). To say this individual can't/shouldn't be similarly accommodated is illogical.

If I hated transgender people I would be saying this person should be in a male prison. I'm not. If you cared about women you would say that transwomen should be accommodated in the male estate in a special care wing. That's a pragmatic solution and one which some prison systems already follow.

But you aren't saying that. Instead you're prioritising their feelings over that of the women who are going to be incarcerated with them and saying they should be in women's jails.

Why a special care wing, is there a need for special care, in your opinion?

 

[classic33]

Well the ones in Limerick jail aren't being 'successfully accomodated'. And this female ex prisoner would disagree with you.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/ex-prisoner-shaking-fear-sharing-29075541?utm_source=app

As long as the transwomen are happy you seem to count that as a successful policy.

Because one is in isolation following an attack on a prison worker, the other two you've linked to previously are in isolation due to attacks from the other women in the prison. Meaning for their safety, not that of any other prisoner.

You mention Limerick Prison, but link a piece to a Scottish prison. Neither service has anything to do with the other.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Dear-oh-dear. Very sloppy, Aurora. You haven't done your due diligence on this one...

Amanda Benson. Imprisoned for glassing another woman and permanently disfiguring her.

But "shaking in fear" of trans women in same prison lol

I know who she is. She's a violent woman, placed in the correct prison. You honestly don't think a violent woman would never be scared or intimidated by a violent man? Or by any other man, violent or not?

You are actually making an argument for mixed prisons, segregated only by severity of crime. Put all the sex offenders together in one wing, both male and female. All the white collar criminals in another, mixed men and women of course. All the violent ones in together. I wonder how that would turn out.

 

[classic33]

I know who she is. She's a violent woman, placed in the correct prison. You honestly don't think a violent woman would never be scared or intimidated by a violent man? Or by any other man, violent or not?

You are actually making an argument for mixed prisons, segregated only by severity of crime. Put all the sex offenders together in one wing, both male and female. All the white collar criminals in another, mixed men and women of course. All the violent ones in together. I wonder how that would turn out.

Include the ability to pay, and you've just taken the prison service back over 200 years.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Because one is in isolation following an attack on a prison worker, the other two you've linked to previously are in isolation due to attacks from the other women in the prison. Meaning for their safety, not that of any other prisoner.

You mention Limerick Prison, but link a piece to a Scottish prison. Neither service has anything to do with the other.

Ireland has self-ID, Scotland planned self-ID. Do you have a link showing they've been attacked by women?

A special care unit would allow transwomen to be away from male prisoners who might seek to intimidate them, but not in the female estate where women might feel intimidated by them. Why isn't this a pragmatic solution?

The mixed prisons thing wasn't serious, Classic. It was the logical end point of the suggestion that violent women shouldn't be housed with non violent women.

I agree though. Putting males in women's prisons takes us back 200 years. They were segregated from 1823 for very good reasons.

 

[multitool]

I know who she is.

 

[classic33]

Ireland has self-ID, Scotland planned self-ID. Do you have a link showing they've been attacked by women?

A special care unit would allow transwomen to be away from male prisoners who might seek to intimidate them, but not in the female estate where women might feel intimidated by them. Why isn't this a pragmatic solution?

The mixed prisons thing wasn't serious, Classic. It was the logical end point of the suggestion that violent women shouldn't be housed with non violent women.

I agree though. Putting males in women's prisons takes us back 200 years. They were segregated from 1823 for very good reasons.

You've previously stated that was why two were in isolation, in Limerick Prison, for. Even linking a newspaper story to it. Who else would do the attacking, given it's a women's prison?

Special Care would mean they require something a prison can't give. What is that special care that you seem to feel is required.

We had prisons split the very way you suggested, raised by me before, which included the ability to pay in where they were kept.

Again, name the prison which was women only in 1823. T'weren't Holloway, that became women only in the early 1900's.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I can't find any newspaper reports saying either of them have been attacked in the women's jail, Classic. I said prisons were separated in 1823, thanks to Elizabeth Fry. Before that they were mixed - and it wasn't good for women.

The special wing is usually for vulnerable prisoners like disabled ones or ones at risk of assault. If you think transwomen prisoners aren't vulnerable, then you are presumably fine with them being placed in the general prison population.

 

[multitool]

You are actually making an argument for mixed prisons, segregated only by severity of crime. Put all the sex offenders together in one wing, both male and female. All the white collar criminals in another, mixed men and women of course. All the violent ones in together. I wonder how that would turn out.

No. I'm not. I'm pointing out that your argument that TW should be placed in men's prisons for safety reasons is bad faith bullshit.

 

[classic33]

I can't find any newspaper reports saying either of them have been attacked in the women's jail, Classic. I said prisons were separated in 1823, thanks to Elizabeth Fry. Before that they were mixed - and it wasn't good for women.

The special wing is usually for vulnerable prisoners like disabled ones or ones at risk of assault. If you think transwomen prisoners aren't vulnerable, then you are presumably fine with them being placed in the general prison population.

You posted a piece from a newspaper, where an ex prisoner gave her story of being in solitary and the reasons why. Attacks by the general prison population, according to you.

That's not what was said, unless you've edited your post. Name the prison(s) where women were separated from men, using your year of 1823.

Women in a women's prison should be safe. However, as you've previously pointed out isolation is the only place some feel safe.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I think you've either got the wrong end of the stick, Classic, or we are talking at cross purposes.

Prisons we're mixed until the Gaols Act of 1823. After 1823, amongst other improvements, male and female prisoners were separated. Women's safety was one of the reasons.

 

[AuroraSaab]

No. I'm not. I'm pointing out that your argument that TW should be placed in men's prisons for safety reasons is bad faith bullshit.

You're suggesting that having transwomen in a female jail is no worse than having violent women in a women's jail. I disagree.

 

[classic33]

I think you've either got the wrong end of the stick, Classic, or we are talking at cross purposes.

Prisons we're mixed until the Gaols Act of 1823. After 1823, amongst other improvements, male and female prisoners were separated. Women's safety was one of the reasons.

The provisions of Gaols Act 1823 were largely ignored until the late 1800's.

One more time, name the, segregated by sex, prison in operation in 1823?