Gender again. Sorry!

[CXRAndy]

I could give you a free couple of achers to go with your smallholding. Were the dykes diversity hires?

These are pretty natural dykes, so much appreciated

 

[monkers]

Advocating for single sex spaces and services for women isn't harassing trans people. They have the same protection from harassment as anybody else. What you actually seek is privileges for a special subset of men, and women are quite entitled to resist that demand.

I am a woman. My partner is a woman. We do not agree with you. Your problems look deeper and have developed into a neurosis. You believe that you speak for women. You don't. You speak for bigots whether they be men or women.

 

[monkers]

These are pretty natural dykes, so much appreciated

They will of course dry up, and soon as the word 'dyke' is removed from all traces on the internet in line with the feurer's wishes.
They are already trying to remove the word 'gay' (see Forbes).

 

[AuroraSaab]

I am a woman. My partner is a woman. We do not agree with you. Your problems look deeper and have developed into a neurosis. You believe that you speak for women. You don't. You speak for bigots whether they be men or women.

We have no proof of any poster's sex so on here so we can speak only for ourselves as individuals of course, but it's increasingly clear that public support for what you have advocated - men in women's spaces and for gender identity to override sex in law - is falling. That's not due to increasing bigotry, it's due to increasing awareness amongst the public of what the demands actually entail.

I dare say the way in which trans activists conduct themselves doesn't help their cause either.

 

[monkers]

We have no proof of any poster's sex so on here so we can speak only for ourselves as individuals of course, but it's increasingly clear that public support for what you have advocated - men in women's spaces and for gender identity to override sex in law - is falling. That's not due to increasing bigotry, it's due to increasing awareness amongst the public of what the demands actually entail.

I dare say the way in which trans activists conduct themselves doesn't help their cause either.

Let's be clear shall we, one woman to another - everytime you call my niece a man, be that directly or indirectly, and every time you lie about trans women being sex abusers etc, I shall call you a ''vile daffodil'' in response to that. To me that is a proportionate response to such vile abuse. Early on I tried explanation and reason, all rejected by you with the accompanying slurs of ''obviously not caring about women and girls''.

You understand that? She's my family. The only tool at my disposal is to call out your lies which you endlessly make, repeat and are notorious on the forum for, and I shall continue to do so. I will continue to expose your lies, and continue to call you the word I despise most of all, because in your case, it feels appropriate. What else would I call a vile person other than a vile word?

 

[AuroraSaab]

I'm not calling your niece a man because as I've made clear before, I don't believe your niece exists - I think you made up a character who you claimed to be a human rights lawyer for the EU in order to give your legal claims on here some credibility.

You're the only person on here who feels the need to constantly repeat the claim that they're a woman. I have no idea what your birth sex is, as you have no idea what mine is, though no doubt you'll tell us again it says female on your birth certificate or passport.

The arguments stand on their own merit regardless of who makes them so I'm not interested in your appeals to authority based on ficticious relatives or unverified statements about your identity.

 

[CXRAndy]

What word is that?

 

[icowden]

Just a suggestion here but despite the fact that I disagree with @monkers on certain elements of this often volatile discussion, I do think that it would be better to actually discuss with her and her niece who have extensive experience of the lived trans experience.

Naturally this will include inherent biases, but I think we would get further in this discussion if we reduced the snark and actually listened to each other more.

This does also cut the other way and often @AuroraSaab makes perfectly valid points from a different point of view. Couldn't we just discuss those without again resorting to ad homs and calling each other liars?

It is possible to disagree with people without just resorting to ad hominem attacks and it's getting a bit dull.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The c word, of course, Andy. The favourite gendered insult of men towards women for over a century.

 

[icowden]

I'm not calling your niece a man because as I've made clear before, I don't believe your niece exists - I think you made up a character who you claimed to be a human rights lawyer for the EU in order to give your legal claims on here some credibility

There are two possibilities, that @monkers is a gifted writer and is using a fictional character to illustrate her argument or her Niece is real.

Whichever you believe to be true, it doesn't invalidate the arguments that are put across.

Personally I would err on the side of caution and assume that N is real and thus try to take both @monkers and N's feelings into account in what is a highly charged discussion.

I don't believe that @monkers is any more supportive of some of the violent "trans" weirdos than anyone else is. The main point of difference seems to be that @monkers argues that sufficient safeguards are already in place that women don't need further protection whereas you and I still feel that there are areas where this may not be true or where safeguards are weakening.

 

[monkers]

I'm not calling your niece a man because as I've made clear before, I don't believe your niece exists - I think you made up a character who you claimed to be a human rights lawyer for the EU in order to give your legal claims on here some credibility.

You're the only person on here who feels the need to constantly repeat the claim that they're a woman. I have no idea what your birth sex is, as you have no idea what mine is, though no doubt you'll tell us again it says female on your birth certificate or passport.

The arguments stand on their own merit regardless of who makes them so I'm not interested in your appeals to authority based on ficticious relatives or unverified statements about your identity.

I believe you are one of Putin's bots. What else could spend endless hours spouting bullshit, turning everything on its head, relentlessly pouring out slurs, have no compassion, and be an empathy free zone? I mean you don't seem to have any human qualities at all. That means it really doesn't matter how many times I call you an evil c.unt and I never have to feel sorry about it. See how this works yet?

 

[AuroraSaab]

There are two possibilities, that @monkers is a gifted writer and is using a fictional character to illustrate her argument or her Niece is real.

Whichever you believe to be true, it doesn't invalidate the arguments that are put across.

Personally I would err on the side of caution and assume that N is real and thus try to take both @monkers and N's feelings into account in what is a highly charged discussion.

I don't believe that @monkers is any more supportive of some of the violent "trans" weirdos than anyone else is. The main point of difference seems to be that @monkers argues that sufficient safeguards are already in place that women don't need further protection whereas you and I still feel that there are areas where this may not be true or where safeguards are weakening.

I admire your optimism on both counts. It's not highly charged on my part though, because whatever is said on this forum it will never change material reality. I don't need to appeal to unverified sources of authority, whether relatives or claims of what my sex is, because the arguments do indeed stand on their own merit, and the more the public hear of these arguments the less convincing they seem to find them.

Have you forgotten Monkers's veiled threat to dob you in to your employer? You'd be off to a gulag in the same van as me and Andy if the opportunity arose.

 

[monkers]

I admire your optimism on both counts. It's not highly charged on my part though, because whatever is said on this forum it will never change material reality. I don't need to appeal to unverified sources of authority, whether relatives or claims of what my sex is, because the arguments do indeed stand on their own merit, and the more the public hear of these arguments the less convincing they seem to find them.

Agreed, you'll always be Putin's bot until deletion. Bots don't mention family or friends, because of course they can't have any.

 

[multitool]

The c word, of course, Andy. The favourite gendered insult of men towards women for over a century.

To be fair it is more often used against men. Always has been.

Bitch is far more common against women.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I believe you are one of Putin's bots. What else could spend endless hours spouting bullshit, turning everything on its head, relentlessly pouring out slurs, have no compassion, and be an empathy free zone? I mean you don't seem to have any human qualities at all. That means it really doesn't matter how many times I call you an evil c.unt and I never have to feel sorry about it. See how this works yet?

It will at some point sink in that I don't care what you call me but I'm more than happy to let you demonstrate the very typical, very abusive face of trans activism over and over again.