Gender again. Sorry!

[CXRAndy]

Monkers and other just can't quite accept the perfectly reasonable option

Have another facility, call it unisex for anyone to use.

Women then can use either women's facilities or unisex, men can use men's facilities or unisex

Trans can use their biological sex or unisex

Sorted 👍

 

[AuroraSaab]

Where is the legal requirement that they should? On the other hand, to quote the Gender Recognition Act 2004, ''for all purposes''.

The legal requirement is for service providers under the Equality Act. You can't 'make' someone use particular facilities based on sex, just like you can't stop someone who's 20 going in to an event for 10 to 15 year olds. However it can now be made clear that they are not in the appropriate facilities and can be removed if appropriate eg from women's changing rooms, just like you can exclude someone for being 20.

Before any man could be in women's services or spaces and women could do nothing about it because the law had been muddied.

Now it's clear and some men aren't happy.

 

[monkers]

Monkers and other just can't quite accept the perfectly reasonable option

Have another facility, call it unisex for anyone to use.

Women then can use either women's facilities or unisex, men can use men's facilities or unisex

Trans can use their biological sex or unisex

Sorted 👍

As you are ''uber-wealthy'' as I think you love to brag about, you won't mind paying for the cost in changes in the nation's infrastructure. Or maybe you could cut a deal with Rowling and pay half each?

 

[monkers]

The legal requirement is for service providers under the Equality Act. You can't 'make' someone use particular facilities based on sex, just like you can't stop someone who's 20 going in to an event for 10 to 15 year olds. However it can now be made clear that they are not in the appropriate facilities and can be removed if appropriate eg from women's changing rooms, just like you can exclude someone for being 20.

Before any man could be in women's services or spaces and women could do nothing about it because the law had been muddied.

Now it's clear and some men aren't happy.

Who am I quoting here Aurora?

Does the Equality Act say that male and female toilets always have to be provided?​

The Equality Act does not say what particular services have to be provided on a separate-sex basis.

As everyone knows, some locations have only unisex toilets (such as on a train). Others have separate-sex facilities. Some have both.

 

[AuroraSaab]

This sudden concern for women who might get mistaken as male (for 10 seconds) is very touching. All those years using women's services and nobody ever suggested there were thousands of them being told they looked like men but now suddenly they are. And to prevent this we must allow any man to go where he likes on the basis of 'I'm a woman' or 'I've got a certificate at home'.

 

[CXRAndy]

As you are ''uber-wealthy'' as I think you love to brag about, you won't mind paying for the cost in changes in the nation's infrastructure. Or maybe you could cut a deal with Rowling and pay half each?

Well if the woke mind virus hadn't taken hold we wouldn't be in this crazy situation.

Everyone, public and private is going to have to stump up for extra facilities. It really isn't that big a deal adding another facility.

 

[monkers]

This sudden concern for women who might get mistaken as male (for 10 seconds) is very touching. All those years using women's services and nobody ever suggested there were thousands of them being told they looked like men but now suddenly they are. And to prevent this we must allow any man to go where he likes on the basis of 'I'm a woman' or 'I've got a certificate at home'.

Don't blame me. I'm just the messenger here as I always have been. This is exactly what you've been campaigning for on here with thousands of posts. You've got what you were demanding. The extensive record shows extensively.

 

[monkers]

Well if the woke mind virus hadn't taken hold we wouldn't be in this crazy situation.

Everyone, public and private is going to have to stump up for extra facilities. It really isn't that big a deal adding another facility.

Nobody is going to want to pay for it. You seem to have quickly declined and placed the burden on everybody else. The result is that those places that voluntarily provided facilities but were never required to will withdraw those facilities for everyone. Everybody loses - real world consequences.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Who am I quoting here Aurora?

The Sex Matters web site. Sounds correct. Service providers look at the situation and decide if separate or unisex facilities are appropriate. If they decide they aren't but users feel it is reasonable to think the situation requires it they might be open to a claim for indirect discrimination. eg unisex enclosed cubicles might be an ok provision for toilets but not as unisex open changing rooms.

 

[monkers]

The Sex Matters web site. Sounds correct. Service providers look at the situation and decide if separate or unisex facilities are appropriate. If they decide they aren't but users feel it is reasonable to think the situation requires it they might be open to a claim for indirect discrimination. eg unisex enclosed cubicles might be an ok provision for toilets but not as unisex open changing rooms.

Your version does not accord with Sex Matters. Therefore are you now admitting that you were wrong?

Service providers also have the option of washing their hands of the whole situation.

 

[monkers]

Well if the woke mind virus hadn't taken hold we wouldn't be in this crazy situation.

Everyone, public and private is going to have to stump up for extra facilities. It really isn't that big a deal adding another facility.

Folk with disabilities are still fighting for their rights; have been for years, but people come along parking in their spaces, parking too close to their cars, blocking their marked bays outside their houses, using fraudulent ID to park illegally, obtaining RADAR keys, giving them personal abuse for ''taking too long''- must I write a full list?

The problem is bigotry, a lack of respect for the convention rights of all individuals.

 

[AuroraSaab]

No idea what you mean by your Sex Matters reference.

The fact is you could have spent your time campaigning for third unisex spaces or specialist trans provision. This situation would have been avoided. But you didn't because only full access to women's spaces was enough. No compromise, no solution that worked for women was allowed. Only full access for men in to women's spaces was acceptable. Now the law has been clarified and you are looking for every weak argument you can to pretend it's unworkable, whether it's women being called unfeminine or providers not being willing to pay for alterations. It's desperate straw grasping.

 

[monkers]

No idea what you mean by your Sex Matters reference.

The fact is you could have spent your time campaigning for third unisex spaces or specialist trans provision. This situation would have been avoided. But you didn't because only full access to women's spaces was enough. No compromise, no solution that worked for women was allowed. Only full access for men in to women's spaces was acceptable. Now the law has been clarified and you are looking for every weak argument you can to pretend it's unworkable, whether it's women being called unfeminine or providers not being willing to pay for alterations. It's desperate straw grasping.

All of a sudden you are now the victim, and it's my fault? Remarkable Karenism there.

 

[CXRAndy]

Nobody is going to want to pay for it. You seem to have quickly declined and placed the burden on everybody else. The result is that those places that voluntarily provided facilities but were never required to will withdraw those facilities for everyone. Everybody loses - real world consequences.

If all facilities are withdrawn, there is only one ideology to blame for it.

You see how pragmatic the right wing normal folk are, proposing a third unisex option, not withdrawing all facilities

As I've said before, if you want something, be prepared to pay

 

[monkers]

If all facilities are withdrawn, there is only one ideology to blame for it.

True story. The ideology responsible is the one that says that convention rights don't matter - ''I'll just take what I want from others.''