Gender again. Sorry!

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multitool

Pharaoh
Another straw man?

Did I say it was a hate crime? No.

I posted a report of "targetted" murder of a trans girl. I made no comment on it.

It is illustrative that the first thing you do is leap in with your strawman and question whether it is a hate crime.
 
OP
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theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
This is three years old and some of you might well have already read it. It's also long and closely argued.

View: https://pennyred.medium.com/terf-wars-why-transphobia-has-no-place-in-feminism-60d3156ad06e


I've never been a big fan of LP but that's a pretty good piece. This is a good formulation the sort of thing I was attempting, 4,781 pages and 629 threads ago, to get Aurora to think about:

Gender and sex are straitjackets for the human soul, and we are all wrestled into them when we’re too young to give consent. What if the so-called “‘trans trend”’ is the best way a lot of young people have found to express their feelings about gender and to survive in patriarchy? In a world where gender is already being imposed violently on your body, scored into your psyche without your consent, what if coming out as trans or genderqueer or non-binary is a means of taking back control?

And what if…. that’s okay?

Young people are always already having someone else’s ideas about gender roles imposed violently on their bodies. Most feminists would agree with that
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AndyRM

Elder Goth
I feel it was targeted because the police say it was.

Have they? Not according to the report I read.

This doesn't in any way diminish my support and alliance with the trans community, but I don't think she was killed for being trans.
 
Gender and sex are straitjackets for the human soul, and we are all wrestled into them when we’re too young to give consent. What if the so-called “‘trans trend”’ is the best way a lot of young people have found to express their feelings about gender and to survive in patriarchy? In a world where gender is already being imposed violently on your body, scored into your psyche without your consent, what if coming out as trans or genderqueer or non-binary is a means of taking back control?

And what if…. that’s okay?

All that would be absolutely fine if it didn't require kids and young people to be lifelong experimental medical patients on puberty blockers and cross sex hormones, have a double mastectomy or genitals removed. It requires the rest of the world to deny science, change the language, and have women move over.

If coming out as trans, genderqueer, or non binary required nothing of anybody else then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Noone would care. It requires rather a lot from people though, especially from women.

To present it as though it's a benign youth cult with no impact on anyone else is massively disingenuous.

How about we let kids be as gender non conforming as they like instead of telling them that being so means they might be the opposite sex. Especially when 4 out of 5 kids with gender dysphoria find it resolves after puberty.
 
OP
OP
theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
All that would be absolutely fine if it didn't require kids and young people to be lifelong experimental medical patients on puberty blockers and cross sex hormones, have a double mastectomy or genitals removed. It requires the rest of the world to deny science, change the language, and have women move over.

If coming out as trans, genderqueer, or non binary required nothing of anybody else then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Noone would care. It requires rather a lot from people though, especially from women.

To present it as though it's a benign youth cult with no impact on anyone else is massively disingenuous.

How about we let kids be as gender non conforming as they like instead of telling them that being so means they might be the opposite sex. Especially when 4 out of 5 kids with gender dysphoria find it resolves after puberty.

I said 'think about', not 'hit autoreply'.
 

AndyRM

Elder Goth
All that would be absolutely fine if it didn't require kids and young people to be lifelong experimental medical patients on puberty blockers and cross sex hormones, have a double mastectomy or genitals removed. It requires the rest of the world to deny science, change the language, and have women move over.

If coming out as trans, genderqueer, or non binary required nothing of anybody else then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Noone would care. It requires rather a lot from people though, especially from women.

To present it as though it's a benign youth cult with no impact on anyone else is massively disingenuous.

How about we let kids be as gender non conforming as they like instead of telling them that being so means they might be the opposite sex. Especially when 4 out of 5 kids with gender dysphoria find it resolves after puberty.

Experimental medical patients?

You have to be joking.

Transitioning is not a medical experiment.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
Just wait until Aurora hears about boob jobs.

She'll be outraged.
 
Experimental medical patients?
You have to be joking.
Transitioning is not a medical experiment.

Medically transitioning children is. The long term effects of puberty blockers are unknown. It is highly questionable how much a child under 18 can understand the effects of drugs that might lead to bone density loss and infertility.

There's a reason the UK, Sweden, and Denmark, have rowed back on use of puberty blockers.

Here's a whistle blower from a US gender clinic. Clearly questions whether the patients understood the consequences of the medications they were prescribed.

https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

"To begin transitioning, the girls needed a letter of support from a therapist—usually one we recommended—who they had to see only once or twice for the green light. To make it more efficient for the therapists, we offered them a template for how to write a letter in support of transition. The next stop was a single visit to the endocrinologist for a testosterone prescription. That’s all it took."

The majority of kids referred to gender clinics have a multitude of other stuff going on. Many are same sex attracted. Something like a third are autistic spectrum. Starting these kids down a medical pathway, when dysphoria resolves itself on its own in most cases, is an experiment.

Just wait until Aurora hears about boob jobs.
She'll be outraged.

Because women having implants is exactly the same as teenage girls with mental health issues having irreversible double mastectomies.....
 
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Sunday Times article extract from Newsnight reporter Hannah Barnes' new book on the Tavistock gender clinic. Archived so no pay wall.

https://archive.is/U8qTA

From Hadley Freeman's interview with Hannah Barnes:

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multitool

Pharaoh
Because women having implants is exactly the same as teenage girls with mental health issues having irreversible double mastectomies.....

Who said it has to be "exactly the same"?

Presumably your point was about hormonal and surgical interventions to make people feel better about their mind-body relationship. So was mine.

If this does not compute with you, try hysterectomy and HRT for women suffering from menopause, peri or post.

I fully realise you are a puritanical zealot and object to treatment that does not pass the Aürora test for moral purity.
 
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