Gender again. Sorry!

[newfhouse]

I've listened to the experience of those who have gone through this misery and detransitioned. Link also provided earlier but you obviously didn't pay any attention to this.

I do know someone in fact for quite a long time and who is starting to 'transition' in a church I musician in but otherwise am not a member of and do not attend. I saw this coming and wish I had said something. It does not appear that anyone else is ever going to.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In my opinion he can either receive his wages or he can have the free gift but he cannot have both. There ought to be a different wordview operating with him, where we are here by choice and not chance, and the will, though limited, really exists, we do have volition and we can make decisions for which we are morally accountable rather than being chemicals that activate blindly pre-programmed by impersonal random forces over time to no purpose, and then deactivate.

I can imagine your reaction, but I would suggest that the whole LGBTQ and whatever alphabet soup is a visual aid as to the 'wages of sin' and that it isn't actually a laughing matter. The sex revolution has exacted a heavy price.

I don't think expertise and knowledge are the issue here. Blind ideology is overruling what is actually going on in the world. Human suffering doesn't count where it goes against the ideology. Hence detransitioners are either ignored or vilified.

Fortunately there are indications that a return to some semblance of sanity is starting to occur.

Usually I read your posts and think you’re an affable old loony but mostly harmless. And then,,,

 

[cookiemonster]

Fortunately there are indications that a return to some semblance of sanity is starting to occur.

Can you elaborate on this point please?

 

[multitool]

Blind ideology is overruling what is actually going on in the world.

Blind ideology. We can't have that, can we.

Anyway, tell us more about your belief in non-existent supernatural beings, please.

 

[matticus]

It was a stupid question.

View attachment 3096

Ah, you mean you didn't understand the question! Oh dear, this must be hard for you ...

 

[bobzmyunkle]

I can imagine your reaction, but I would suggest that the whole LGBTQ and whatever alphabet soup is a visual aid as to the 'wages of sin' and that it isn't actually a laughing matter. The sex revolution has exacted a heavy price.

Many years ago I went to Sunday school. I'm sure they told me Jesus loved me. It's a long time ago so it might be that selective memory thing where you just remember the positive bits.

 

[multitool]

Ah, you mean you didn't understand the question! Oh dear, this must be hard for you ...

Did you not realise I was quoting the police? Do you still not realise, even though I clarified it already?

Are you OK, Matt?

 

[matticus]

Did you not realise I was quoting the police? Do you still not realise, even though I clarified it already?

Are you OK, Matt?

I'm good thanks x

I wasn't asking you to read out some words from the report to me, but still, you did make the effort, so that's nice 👍

 

[AuroraSaab]

Some people shout 'science' as it suits, and also ignore science as it suits. Such people are zealots.

There's nothing more science denying than saying you can change sex. The science that supposedly backs the affirmation model used in gender clinics is poor quality and limited. Which is why we are seeing several countries questioning the huge increase in numbers of children referred to gender clinics and reducing the use of puberty blockers.

Nowhere has science been more denied than in the sports discussion, where the poorest of evidence has been used to push for the inclusion of men in the women's sports category.

I have repeated the observation that there are some feminist women from the left of politics with their trans exclusionary arguments, and the Christian right leaning trans exclusionary arguments. What they have in common is that both groups are zealots, and there are tactics which were practised in Nazi Germany before and during WW2.

 There you go again. 'Women's rights = Nazi fascists'. By trying to make every women's rights issue into an anti-trans issue you imagine people are going to believe it to be true. It won't wash. There's a clash of rights and crying 'right wing bigot' every time someone points it out won't work anymore.

One keen to shout her biological existentialism as reality,

If you mean me, I'm not a biological essentialist. I don't believe there are innate characteristics that make you a woman or man. There's no lady brain or gendered soul. I don't think liking football makes you a boy, or that playing with dolls makes you a girl. That's your side.

My statements have always been that there are groups of people arguing about trans people. Trans people are not involved directly in these arguments, but when they bat back the abuses levelled against them, they are misreported as being abusive themselves.

If it impinges on women it's an argument about women's rights. For years the mantra was No Debate - in an attempt to stop the discussion altogether. It didn't work then and it won't work now.

 

[matticus]

You certainly stick to your guns, monkers:

But now you feel more certain that you are right because you actually bullied somebody into calling you a Nazi, and you can cherry-pick and quote me. Well done.

... next day ...

What they have in common is that both groups are zealots, and there are tactics which were practised in Nazi Germany before and during WW2.

 

[monkers]

You certainly stick to your guns, monkers:



... next day ...

They are now getting what they wanted me to say. I didn't want this. I wanted a discussion, but the biology absolutist and the God-fearing absolutist want to have a row with anyone with a humanist perspective, and to carry out posting their shite; endlessy.

Is anyone is left unconvinced that what they are preaching is demonisation of LGBTQ people? There is blatant homophobia and transphobia from one poster, but we mustn't call him a zealot. We mustn't mention that these were among the people targeted by the Nazis. The methodology is so similar.

So you might say, 'what has triggered da Monkers' these last few days? Well there was one very young trans woman driven to suicide, another very young trans woman murdered in the park, and Lee Anderson MP calling for death sentences, also for stoning for LGBT people, leading to so-called 'debates' about that, and there is the recent viciousness of this toxic thread.

The government want a culture war; they don't want a discussion.

AS does not want a discussion, Unkraut does not want a discussion. They want this thread for a platform. This has never been clearer given the oppression they are seeking of a marginalised groups of people. The thread has become vicious. Being as the gloves are off, if they are free to speak as they feel, then so is anybody else.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Nothing more homophobic than telling gay kids they might be the opposite sex or telling lesbians they're bigots if they aren't attracted to transwomen.

Appropriating the Holocaust in order to shut down discussion on whether those born male should be in women's prisons and sports, amongst other things, is simply a reflection of how your argument rests only on emotive histrionics.

 

[classic33]

There's nothing more science denying than saying you can change sex. The science that supposedly backs the affirmation model used in gender clinics is poor quality and limited. Which is why we are seeing several countries questioning the huge increase in numbers of children referred to gender clinics and reducing the use of puberty blockers.

Nowhere has science been more denied than in the sports discussion, where the poorest of evidence has been used to push for the inclusion of men in the women's sports category.  

There you go again. 'Women's rights = Nazi fascists'. By trying to make every women's rights issue into an anti-trans issue you imagine people are going to believe it to be true. It won't wash. There's a clash of rights and crying 'right wing bigot' every time someone points it out won't work anymore.

If you mean me, I'm not a biological essentialist. I don't believe there are innate characteristics that make you a woman or man. There's no lady brain or gendered soul. I don't think liking football makes you a boy, or that playing with dolls makes you a girl. That's your side.

If it impinges on women it's an argument about women's rights. For years the mantra was No Debate - in an attempt to stop the discussion altogether. It didn't work then and it won't work now.

If they are legally women, whether you like that or not, what group should they be in?

Maybe do away with male - female groups, and have one open catargory/class.

 

[monkers]

Nothing more homophobic than telling gay kids they might be the opposite sex or telling lesbians they're bigots if they aren't attracted to transwomen.

Appropriating the Holocaust in order to shut down discussion on whether those born male should be in women's prisons and sports, amongst other things, is simply a reflection of how your argument rests only on emotive histrionics.

Who said anything about the Holocaust? I hope you're not making stuff up again. Emotive histrionics - ahem.

 

[AuroraSaab]

If they are legally women, whether you like that or not, what group should they be in?

Maybe do away with male - female groups, and have one open catargory/class.

The category that reflects their birth sex, because of the advantages being that particular birth sex gives them. Who would win the single Open class in most sports do you think, bearing in mind that even the most outstanding records in Women's track and field are routinely beaten by huge numbers of boys and men each year?

https://law.duke.edu/sports/sex-sport/comparative-athletic-performance/

 

[classic33]

The category that reflects their birth sex, because of the advantages being that particular birth sex gives them. Who would win the single Open class in most sports do you think, bearing in mind that even the most outstanding records in Women's track and field are routinely beaten by huge numbers of boys and men each year?

https://law.duke.edu/sports/sex-sport/comparative-athletic-performance/

View attachment 3098

That goes against what you've called for before though. Trans men to compete against men, not other women.

An single category would eliminate any perceived advantage.