Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

The need for hysterectomy, mastectomy, and menopause are medical conditions. They are not cosmetic procedures given on request in order to make you feel better.

A closer analogy would be giving liposuction to anorexic people to make them feel better about their mind-body relationship.

4 out 5 kids with gender/body dysphoria find it resolves itself after puberty if they do not undergo medical or surgical intervention. Once they start on puberty blockers they invariably proceed to cross sex hormones.

These treatments have irreversible consequences. Perhaps read the stories of the many detransitioners rather than imagining that making young people life long medical patients is somehow the moral high ground.

 

[multitool]

Gender dysphoria is a medical condition.

HTH.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's a mental health condition. There might be a small number of people for whom a lifetime of drugs and even surgery is the only thing that brings them peace of mind but these are cosmetic changes, they are not treating a physical condition.

If it was a medical condition alleviated by meds and surgery there wouldn't be such a thing as people who detransition.

Self-ID requires no diagnosis of gender dysphoria btw.

 

[multitool]

Mental health conditions are medical conditions.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Which other mental health condition requires drugs that make cosmetic changes or surgery that removes healthy tissue?

Should we give anorexics diet pills and liposuction to help their mental health?

 

[multitool]

A moment ago you were suggesting that mental health conditions are not medical conditions. Now, you seem to be wanting to determine which medical conditions you deem to be worthy of treatment and which you don't.

And all this with zero knowledge and expertise.

 

[classic33]

It's a mental health condition. There might be a small number of people for whom a lifetime of drugs and even surgery is the only thing that brings them peace of mind but these are cosmetic changes, they are not treating a physical condition.

If it was a medical condition alleviated by meds and surgery there wouldn't be such a thing as people who detransition.

Self-ID requires no diagnosis of gender dysphoria btw.

And you are qualified to make that statement?

I've had a lifetime of medication, and a threat of surgery, to alleviate/ease a condition that the experts with all the years of research spent on the condition can't decide if it's a mental or physical illness.

 

[classic33]

Which other mental health condition requires drugs that make cosmetic changes or surgery that removes healthy tissue?

Should we give anorexics diet pills and liposuction to help their mental health?

With my last post in mind, epilepsy.
Brain surgery threatened in early 2015, because a lifetime of medication has had minimal impact.

 

[AuroraSaab]

A moment ago you were suggesting that mental health conditions are not medical conditions. Now, you seem to be wanting to determine which medical conditions you deem to be worthy of treatment and which you don't.

And all this with zero knowledge and expertise.

It is a mental health condition. The condition worthy of treatment is all the stuff going on in the background, which might be causing the gender dysphoria. Just like you would with any other mental health condition.

The drugs given to those suffering body/gender dysphoria are not drugs for mental health. They are drugs, and sometimes surgery, that effect cosmetic changes. Those cosmetic changes might bring about a sense of relief for a while but for many it doesn't solve the underlying issues.

Re expertise, did you read the article by the US gender clinic staff member or the Times article? These are staff and physicians saying outright that gender clinics were 'transing' kids that had a multitude of other issues, from anxiety, to being bullied, to being scared of being gay, to being autistic. Gender dysphoria was a symptom of their distress, not the cause.

Here's some expertise. Denmark's Tampere University's professor of youth psychiatry and leader of their gender programme, Riittakerttu Kaltiala on the dangers of affirming children with dysphoria as being the opposite sex:

https://www.hs.fi/tiede/art-2000009348478.html

People with extensive knowledge and expertise are speaking out now. And the UK, Denmark, Sweden, and the Netherlands are all rowing back on their gender clinic methodology.

Perhaps read about detransitioners. See what they feel about the experts who gave them meds with irreversible effects when they had a myriad of issues going on.

 

[AuroraSaab]

With my last post in mind, epilepsy.
Brain surgery threatened in early 2015, because a lifetime of medication has had minimal impact.

This is like taking meds for back pain and later having surgery, surely. The meds are intended to have a physical effect even if they don't work in every case.

 

[multitool]

Transing kids, detransitioners, where's my bingo card gone.

Here's some expertise. Denmark's Tampere University's professor of youth psychiatry and leader of their gender programme, Riittakerttu Kaltiala on the dangers of affirming children with dysphoria as being the opposite sex:
https://www.hs.fi/tiede/art-2000009348478.html

Lol. It's Finland. I know you aren't big on details and accuracy.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Yep, my typing was lacking, but the expertise you requested remains. 4 out of 5 kids desist if you don't give them meds.

 

[classic33]

This is like taking meds for back pain and later having surgery, surely. The meds are intended to have a physical effect even if they don't work in every case.

Nothing like taking medications for back pain. Suggest you read up on what the anti-epiletic medications do to the brain.

The surgery isn't always the best solution if the medications can't reduce the seizure rate. It can make things worse.

 

[Unkraut]

You sound like you've met and spoken to a lot of trans people

I've listened to the experience of those who have gone through this misery and detransitioned. Link also provided earlier but you obviously didn't pay any attention to this.

I do know someone in fact for quite a long time and who is starting to 'transition' in a church I musician in but otherwise am not a member of and do not attend. I saw this coming and wish I had said something. It does not appear that anyone else is ever going to.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In my opinion he can either receive his wages or he can have the free gift but he cannot have both. There ought to be a different wordview operating with him, where we are here by choice and not chance, and the will, though limited, really exists, we do have volition and we can make decisions for which we are morally accountable rather than being chemicals that activate blindly pre-programmed by impersonal random forces over time to no purpose, and then deactivate.

I can imagine your reaction, but I would suggest that the whole LGBTQ and whatever alphabet soup is a visual aid as to the 'wages of sin' and that it isn't actually a laughing matter. The sex revolution has exacted a heavy price.

Yep, my typing was lacking, but the expertise you requested remains. 4 out of 5 kids desist if you don't give them meds.

I don't think expertise and knowledge are the issue here. Blind ideology is overruling what is actually going on in the world. Human suffering doesn't count where it goes against the ideology. Hence detransitioners are either ignored or vilified.

Fortunately there are indications that a return to some semblance of sanity is starting to occur.

 

[monkers]

Science ...

The World Health Organization (WHO) will remove "gender identity disorder" from its global manual of diagnoses — a major win for transgender rights. The change was announced last summer, but a resolution to amend the health guidelines was officially approved Saturday.

The United Nations' health agency released a revised version of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) that reclassifies "gender identity disorder" as "gender incongruence," which is now featured under the sexual health chapter rather than the mental disorders chapter.

Gender incongruence is better known as gender dysphoria, the feeling of distress when an individual's gender identity is at odds with the gender assigned at birth. An evolving scientific understanding of gender and work by transgender advocates have contributed to the reclassification.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/world-...nder-dysphoria-from-list-of-mental-illnesses/

Some people shout 'science' as it suits, and also ignore science as it suits. Such people are zealots.

Some people shout 'God' as it suits, and also ignore scripture as it suits. Such people are zealots.

https://read.dukeupress.edu/tsq/art...st-FeminismA-Dialogue?redirectedFrom=fulltext

I have repeated the observation that there are some feminist women from the left of politics with their trans exclusionary arguments, and the Christian right leaning trans exclusionary arguments. They now inhabit the same spaces borrowing heavily from each other's concerns. What they have in common is that both groups are zealots, and there are tactics which were practised in Nazi Germany before and during WW2.

In this thread the staunchest opponents of trans people have united exactly in the way that I've speaking about.

One keen to shout her biological existentialism as reality, the other shouting about morality as the word of God.

The 'science one' still keen to shout her preferred view of gender being a nonsense construct, choosing to ignore the words of the World Health Organisation; the other oblivious to such facts as religion being totally reliant on faith, since there is lack of evidence that God exists at all.

My statements have always been that there are groups of people arguing about trans people. Trans people are not involved directly in these arguments, but when they bat back the abuses levelled against them, they are misreported as being abusive themselves. Trans people are unable to win, because they find themselves in an unwinnable situation.

The determination of some on here to insist that trans people are mentally ill, confused, immature, autistic, predators, paedophiles, violent, and murderers is obvious. The repeated slogans, false equivalences, false dichotomies, lies, misrepresentations, etc ultimately will build to moral panic. This is the aim, identify and enemy, dehumanise, induce fear. These are the methods previously used in fascism. It worked before. It can work again.

Any dictionary that you care to consult defines these behaviours as 'bigotry'.

The denials loudly reverberate all around these forum walls, but some here know it by its name.