The Crofted Crest
Active Member
Way to go, shep! Keep fighting the cistem!
Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
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Way to go, shep! Keep fighting the cistem!
mudsticks
Squire
I've observed that a lot of these men who are so keen to squash the rights and recognition of transgender people, in order (they claim) to defend or protect womankind, are in turn remarkably quiet or even resistant when it comes to challenging everyday sexism and misogyny.
It's almost as if they're really only seeking to preserve their own vision of what a woman 'should' be - that they're not really that interested in advancing women's rights freedom and equality generally, certainly not if it means they have to adjust their own language or behaviour, or work on that of their peers.
Basically they're often just using this supposed concern for women as a.front to justify their hate for transpeople.
If these anti-trans culture-warrioring man-heroes would put even half as much effort into tackling the basic things like the misogynistic culture that breeds violence against, and disrespect for, women and girls in the first place, we would be a lot further along the road of not even needing so many 'safe spaces' as women.
But if you suggest that the likes of Clarkson or Tate or any of the other nasty misogynists should change their ways, then their freedom to do toxic hate speech on women will often be defended vociferously by the same people hating on transpeople.
I can see that there are some practical difficulties to accomodating transpeople in say prisons, or reclassifying some sporting events, but I'm pretty sure as an intelligent species we could work this one out.
mudsticks
Squire
I've used it in 'real life' too.
And I'm not even a brainy biochemist like Jim 🙄
More than happy to be 'dismissed' by someone who dismisses others on the basis of their use of a recognised and inoffensive word.
I think we've established quite a while back that your have a fairly narrow circle of acquaintance.
That's your choice of course, but it will also narrow your experience of the rich and glorious diversity of people to be found out there in
'the real world'
matticus
Guru
Do you have a certificate of some kind for your telepathy?
mudsticks
Squire
Tbh it's not really that necessary, when by their words you can know them 👍🏼
AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
This is desperate stuff. To suggest we ignore an expert in the field, whose view is the same as 99.9% of other experts in the field, because one of you says your wife didn't like him and the other reckons he's transphobic because he says you can't change sex is just nuts. What happened to following the science? Or does that only apply to climate change and covid?
It just shows how much people are prepared to abandon common sense and critical thinking in favour of an ideological stance.
newfhouse
pleb
See also the vociferously anti-hijab claiming they are defending “our women” from oppression.
AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
At least we agree there is still a need for single sex spaces. And yes, we could work it out. Unisex third spaces would be a start, but that solution has been deemed unacceptable to trans activists unfortunately. Following the science solves the sports issue.
I find the word 'cis' offensive, Mudsticks. Many women do. I am not a subset of my own sex. You should not define people by reference to things they are not. You wouldn't call your black friends 'cis black'.
bobzmyunkle
Well-Known Member
Just I'd throw in the term 'ad hominem' - if only to give Shep more vocabulary he can't use with his mates.
I'm here to learn on this subject, so I'd be really interested if the science was discussed - even if only to dismiss it as irrelevant.
I have very little interest in Winston's personal views or his personality.
I'm here to learn on this subject, so I'd be really interested if the science was discussed - even if only to dismiss it as irrelevant.
I have very little interest in Winston's personal views or his personality.
icowden
Legendary Member
I've noticed that (in the US particularly) it always seems to boil down to who can use which toilet. I have oft thought the world would be a better place if we could all agree that unless there is a urinal, a toilet can be used by anybody. My wife on the other hand says that if you let men into a toilet cubicle it will quickly become even more disgusting than it already may be...
From this I have deduced that we may never be able to resolve the toilet issue...
winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
I'm sure she's able to clarify but the post from @mudsticks you've quoted mentions 'safe spaces'. That is not necessarily the same thing as 'single sex spaces'. This is the same issue I was trying to point out before, where you eventually and I think somewhat inadvertently ended up agreeing with me.
Ian H
Guru
An 82yr old retired scientist with wacky views on one subject (pollution) might well be unreliable in other areas.
But you said follow the science - https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/#
Fab Foodie
Guru
Fab Foodie
Guru
Cisters are doing-it for themselves....
mudsticks
Squire
I'm not a 'sub set' of anything either.
But I don't claim a whole gender as my.own , nor do I claim a right to define the gender of others.
Following the science in this case isn't enough by itself..
This isn't like fighting a virus.
We as people are not just biological soup, walking around in a human shaped membrane.
The societal aspects of all this are important too.
'Scientism' ie the putting of science on a pedestal, and having primacy over and above all other considerations has also been used to oppress people, when it's seen as convenient to do so.
I don't call any of my friends cis anything , I refer to them by their names.
We both know that terms such as cis, or poc for example are used in much broader conversations about whole identity groups , in say policy making, they're not usually used about individuals - that would be ridiculous.
