Gender again. Sorry!

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Bear in mind that the categories were essentially created by cis folk in academia, not by people included in the transgender monicker. Also bear in mind that monkers spoke to this point in the very first post she made on the forum.

It's almost better to say what transgender isn't. It isn't a category of a unified group.

If I set a group and call it believers, and within it, I include every faith, it doesn't make those faiths all the same. A Witness is not a Muslim.

Transgender is a similar container. The word ''transgender'' has differing definitions and explanations depending on where you look. The nearest to a unifying definition is that it is an umbrella term covering a range of identities. There is some debate about where it includes drag queens. For me drag queens and drag kings are professional performers. That is not to say that they don't enjoy what they do, but it is more related to gay man culture. To do this day, some gay men call each other by women's names, or even ''bitch'', but they do not consider themselves female or women. It's performative. They don't perform this because they despise women.

This range of identities is said to cover HPWs, CDs, TVs, - all of whom say they are men. Sexual preferences are wide, from playing alone, liking women, liking men, liking others like them, to ''lock up your brooms''.

Also under the transgender are trans women - this includes transitioners who have committed to ''the journey'' and those who have transitioned with a GRC. Some trans women complete hormones, surgery, etc, but they don't apply for a GRC, often because they are in a long term marriage where both partners wish to continue the marriage.

The key to understanding is that all people have different motives and drivers.

So trans women with a GRC are a category under transgender and a category under women.

Don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger here answering your question. I wish the answer was more simple.

To refresh about your prison data pictograph, the point made by monkers was this, trans women were not counted by the prison service in the cohort of ''transgender women'' but in the cohort of ''women'' because of the legal distinction in the form of the deeming provision established in the GRA.

Otherwise the data presentation in that pictogram was flawed. Actually not just flawed, but a wilfully manipulative representation of the official data.

If you care about your credibility, you'll care about the truth, revisist the pictograph and read again what monkers explained. Otherwise you can just be like CXRAndy.

This is the same argument you've advanced since you pivoted from 'you are who you say you are'. ie there are an extra special group of special men who are to be treated as different from other men, not just because they say the magic words 'I'm a woman' but also because they were given a certificate. Objectively these men are no different from any other men.
 

CXRAndy

Legendary Member
Disavow :okay:
 

monkers

Shaman
This is the same argument you've advanced since you pivoted from 'you are who you say you are'. ie there are an extra special group of special men who are to be treated as different from other men, not just because they say the magic words 'I'm a woman' but also because they were given a certificate. Objectively these men are no different from any other men.

Those are not my words, but fundamentally that is how many identities work.

Some identities are imposed by need. A disabled person on the telephone buying a rail ticket might say, ''I am a disabled person'' in order to express their needs - that is a facet of their personal identity.

It has the opposite ''able-bodied'', but rarely do able-bodied people express that as an identity. They might say ''I'm healthy'', but they are expressing a stable steady state, not an identity. A blind person does not call themself '' a blind'' but a ''blind man'' or a ''blind woman''. Hence this is an identity, an identity of choice based on need, they need your compassion to facilitate their dignity. A left-handed person, doesn't need to say ''I'm a left handed person'', they are more likely just to say ''I'm left-handed'' because only rarely does this create need.

So identity can fit around cohesion or inclusion, or around features that cause a level of exclusion.

People variously identify around philosophical beliefs such as religion. ''I am a Christian'' or I am a ''Muslim'' or it is expressed through tokens. By definition these are ideologies. When you talk about your ''protected philosophical belief'', you are talking about an ideology that you've selected as your truth. Veganism likewise is an ideology.

In some cultures identities are bestowed, they can be shaken off; but in the UK identity may be a more simple choice. This relates to whether identities are personally internalised 'intrinsic' or external impediments of culture and/or education.

My female identity was never taught to me. It is not learned. I was punished at a young age as I tried to express it. It is not related to fetish or kink - I have never been interested in that. It is innate because it is deeply personal and feels like it was always there, and never not there. It is not shared, but unique to me. I learned later to express how I feel, when I needed connection, when I needed healthcare.

It is not an ideology in or of itself. It is more akin to the disabled person who expresses their identity because it expresses their needs, when they need help from compassionate people. Disability is not an option unless you are a person who refuses treatment. I have not refused treatment, therefore it is not a choice. It is my life, but not a lifestyle choice. I have never waved flags, I treat it as deeply personal because to me it is.

Accordingly, it is nobody else's business, and it is not your place to intrude upon it. I require nothing from you. I have no need of your permission. Permission is not your's to give. You have amply demonstrated that you are not a person who can be trusted with the identity of another person. Indeed you weaponise it. I do not need you to be kind. The law requires you to leave people to their dignity. What you have campaigned for is to strip me of dignity. You've worked to make my life that of a prisoner. It is a false imprisonment. A rigged trial. No justice. I'm not the only victim of this cruelty.

Typically people who are treated without justice are made angry - the Waspi women - the Horizon scandal survivors. They activate, they campaign, and you will support them perhaps because you recognise that injustice is an evil. And yet, you campaigned to strip me of dignity, to imprison me. You became the evil force.

Trans people tried to organise, tried to campaign, and activate for justice. But they were your target group, so you changed your principles, changed your values. These are the warning bells of those being captured by fascism. You've allowed yourself not to just be fascist, but you've engaged in its recruitment.
 
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monkers

Shaman
Yes I see you Mickle. Still laughing at human suffering. Perhaps you never were a decent person? Perhaps you've been captured by moral panic? But whichever is true, you enjoy punishing and causing great harm to others. It speaks volumes about your character.
 
Some identities are imposed by need. A disabled person on the telephone buying a rail ticket might say, ''I am a disabled person'' in order to express their needs - that is a facet of their personal identity.

Being disabled isn't an identity. You actually have to be disabled. If you call yourself disabled but aren't then you're a liar, an imposter, someone pretending to be in a category to which you do not belong.....

Accordingly, it is nobody else's business, and it is not your place to intrude upon it. I require nothing from you.

Nothing? We are expected to give up our integrity and join in the delusion by calling trans identifying men 'she'. Women are expected to share their spaces with trans identifying men, based solely on their say so. We're all supposed to abandon science, safeguarding, and evidence based health care for children, all in support of the metaphysical belief that some people aren't the sex they were born.

Trans identifying men 'intrude' and as such it is very much other people's business.
 

monkers

Shaman
Being disabled isn't an identity. You actually have to be disabled. If you call yourself disabled but aren't then you're a liar, an imposter, someone pretending to be in a category to which you do not belong.....

If and when you need to identify yourself as a disabled person, that is one facet of your identity. I am a trans woman. In life I never express my identity as a trans woman, but as a woman. I'm not an imposter. I don't predate. I ask for nothing but my rights to dignity and privacy. Every time you scrape the internet looking for clues to my identity - and you do - YOU ARE THE IMPOSTER. You self-justify abuse - like the fascist you are.
 

monkers

Shaman
Trans identifying men 'intrude' and as such it is very much other people's business.

Yes you are bigging up the narrative constantly. As monkers used to tell you, women not think it such a big deal. The number of women who have been stirred up by this billionaire funded activism to a moral panic are a small number. You are not elected to speak for a majority of women, because that majority simply doesn't exist and nobody elected you. This is exactly what Kellie -Jay Keen found out when she stood in the general election. She stood against Carla Denyer, an openly bisexual non-binary person who is trans affirmative. And this is what people said with their feet ...

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monkers

Shaman
Nothing? We are expected to give up our integrity and join in the delusion by calling trans identifying men 'she'. Women are expected to share their spaces with trans identifying men, based solely on their say so. We're all supposed to abandon science, safeguarding, and evidence based health care for children, all in support of the metaphysical belief that some people aren't the sex they were born.

The delusion is your own - right from the word ''we''. The delusion is that you have is the supposed right to strip others of their equal rights to privacy and dignity, and in so doing place them in harm's way.

No trans woman believes that have the same reproductive pathway as a cis woman - hence the words ''trans woman'' hence no delusion present.
 

classic33

Missen
Being disabled isn't an identity. You actually have to be disabled. If you call yourself disabled but aren't then you're a liar, an imposter, someone pretending to be in a category to which you do not belong.....
It's not an identity as such, for the person living with the disability, but it seems to satisfy many in positions of power. However great that power might actually be. To be asked if you identify as being disabled is degrading. But I doubt you'd be bothered about things like that. It's also covered in the Equalities Act 2010 and previously the DDA 1995. Thirty years of legal protection from people who'd put us into a third class position.

You've got this odd notion that everyone must be pigeon holed into specific categories, predetermined by yourself.
Remember not all disabilities are visible. And just because you can't see it the instant you look at the person doesn't make the disability disappear or less real for the person living with it. It can at best take nothing more than a very simple acknowledgement of the disabilty. Not dismissing it as you have done on here, and as you did in the NC&P on the cyclechat site.
 
You are not elected to speak for a majority of women, because that majority simply doesn't exist and nobody elected you.

And nobody elected you did they?

This is exactly what Kellie -Jaye Keen found out when she stood in the general election. She stood against Carla Denyer, an openly bisexual non-binary person who is trans affirmative. And this is what people said with their feet ...

A party that had existed for 4 months didn't win against a long established party and a well known candidate? Doesn't exactly prove that the majority of people in the UK don't support the need for single sex spaces.

These are the ridiculous straws you grasp at as you see it all come crashing down.

I see the Be Kind people were out at Trans Pride again.

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It's not an identity as such, for the person living with the disability, but it seems to satisfy many in positions of power. However great that power might actually be. To be asked if you identify as being disabled is degrading. But I doubt you'd be bothered about things like that. It's also covered in the Equalities Act 2010 and previously the DDA 1995. Thirty years of legal protection from people who'd put us into a third class position. You've got this odd notion that everyone must be pigeon holed into specific categories, predetermined by yourself.
No idea what any of this is about.
Remember not all disabilities are visible. And just because you can't see it the instant you look at the person doesn't make the disability disappear or less real for the person living with it. It can at best take nothing more than a very simple acknowledgement of the disabilty. Not dismissing it as you have done on here, and as you did in the NC&P on the cyclechat site.

Any evidence of this? You never provide any of course, but I thought I'd ask. I guess you're ok with people getting the accommodations that are (rightly) given to disabled people, even if they aren't disabled. They can just identify into any category they like by the sounds of it.
 

monkers

Shaman
We're all supposed to abandon science, safeguarding, and evidence based health care for children, all in support of the metaphysical belief that some people aren't the sex they were born.
No such thing is ''supposed''. We have a duty to children regardless of our beliefs whatever they are - all of us.

I can look at the news any day and see pages of negative commentary, and buried away some story of tragedy.

This was the story from only yesterday. The suicide of a trans child. You know - the ones you say never happen! The one's where you call grieving parents ''shroud wavers''.

https://inews.co.uk/news/sussex-pol...een-who-committed-suicide-court-hears-3827406
 
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classic33

Missen
No idea what any of this is about.
Your default answer being rolled out again.
Any evidence of this? You never provide any of course, but I thought I'd ask. I guess you're ok with people getting the accommodations that are (rightly) given to disabled people, even if they aren't disabled. They can just identify into any category they like by the sounds of it.
I'll use your answers to answer, google is your friend and your own posts on here prove it.
Good for the goose and all that...

Now you explain how can a disabled person be given anything due to disability if they're not disabled?

The "rights" given under the DDA were to ensure we got equal treatment, not special treatment.
 

monkers

Shaman
And nobody elected you did they?



A party that had existed for 4 months didn't win against a long established party and a well known candidate? Doesn't exactly prove that the majority of people in the UK don't support the need for single sex spaces.

These are the ridiculous straws you grasp at as you see it all come crashing down.

I see the Be Kind people were out at Trans Pride again.

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As always, I select my words carefully. When people are treated badly and with injustice, they are made angry. This is not restricted to trans people, it is the human condition. You've played your part in making people angry. They are reacting to the fascism of people like you. None of which says that I approve of the messaging.
 
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