Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

Your last question:

... by pretending to be disabled, just like that Spanish basketball team I mentioned who were in the paraolympics. You seriously can't be saying there aren't cases of people getting stuff they aren't entitled to.

..... likewise men who pretend to be women and get accommodations they aren't entitled to, like access to single sex spaces.

It's you making claims of what people have said without being able to produce the posts as evidence. Saying 'You can't prove you didn't' is just lunacy. The logic of someone asking someone else to disprove something they haven't said is surreal.

 

[classic33]

Your last question:

View attachment 9316

... by pretending to be disabled, just like that Spanish basketball team I mentioned who were in the paraolympics. You seriously can't be saying there aren't cases of people getting stuff they aren't entitled to.

..... likewise men who pretend to be women and get accommodations they aren't entitled to, like access to single sex spaces.

It's you making claims of what people have said without being able to produce the posts as evidence. Saying 'You can't prove you didn't' is just lunacy. The logic is surreal.

Enlarging the question doesn't make your "answer" any better. I know the question I asked expecting you to answer the question as asked. You simply chose to sidestep it.
And now you're introducing something that wasn't asked by me. Possibly by claiming that one supports the other.
And it was as much the previous post that was in need of an answer

You fail to see the idiotic piece, posted by yourself, for what it is

disabled people, even if they aren't disabled.

plain idiotic.

 

[monkers]

Nobody on here, including me, has called grieving parents 'shroud wavers'. As you were told before when you claimed it, it is the term Hillary Cass used in a Times interview.

View attachment 9314
She actually means people like you, who promote the notion that children who don't get medicalised will kill themselves. This narrative is promoting suicidal ideation in children. The UK's lead on suicide, Prof Louis Appleby, has asked that people stop this narrative, but you persist.

The child in the link died in 2022, had a long history of mental health issues, and received intermittent mental health care. Like many, many other children they were not given timely care. This is not a situation unique to children referred to gender clinics.

View attachment 9315

There are thousands of these children (and adults of course) awaiting referrals and consistent contact with CAMHS.

Then there are thousand of cases of children dropping out school, self-harming, contemplating suicide, and a few more who will succeed.

I'd be loathe to merely sprinkling, I must up my game.

Zero sympathy for the parents of that child expressed by you and a repeat of the abuse.

But grieving parents - just shroud waving because their dead kids happen to be trans.

Invoking Cass - isn't that one of those cases you call ''appeal to authority'' whenever an expert is invoked when providing truth. You've just proved just how awful Cass is as a person - and you.

 

[CXRAndy]

Has there been an explosion of suicides of young adults and children, since drugs were stopped being handed out like sweeties?

 

[monkers]

Has there been an explosion of suicides of young adults and children, since drugs were stopped being handed out like sweeties?

There has been an increase. I'm being drawn in by your hyperbole.

 

[CXRAndy]

An independent review by Professor Louis Appleby, commissioned by the UK government in 2024, analyzed data from NHS England on suicides among patients at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust’s Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) from 2018–19 to 2023–24. The review found 12 suicides over this period—five in the three years before 2020–21 and seven in the three years after. This slight increase is not statistically significant and does not support claims of a "surge" or "explosion" in suicides following the restriction of puberty blockers.

Appleby noted that the patients who died had multiple social and clinical risk factors, and there was no consistent link to any single aspect of care, such as access to puberty blockers.

 

[monkers]

An independent review by Professor Louis Appleby, commissioned by the UK government in 2024, analyzed data from NHS England on suicides among patients at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust’s Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) from 2018–19 to 2023–24. The review found 12 suicides over this period—five in the three years before 2020–21 and seven in the three years after. This slight increase is not statistically significant and does not support claims of a "surge" or "explosion" in suicides following the restriction of puberty blockers.

Appleby noted that the patients who died had multiple social and clinical risk factors, and there was no consistent link to any single aspect of care, such as access to puberty blockers.

Must you treat everything so uncritically. No wonder MAGA so easily captured you.

 

[CXRAndy]

You just dont like the evidence from experts

 

[monkers]

You just dont like the evidence from experts

I read reports critically. Something that even AI manages. In the case of Alice Litman, her case was not put forward for review. Parents of other children have used FOI requests and also discovered that the NHS were witholding data from Appleby who they appointed to carry out the review.

Missing Data and Allegations of a Cover-Up Dr. Litman and others have pointed out that:

• Appleby’s review only included current or former GIDS patients, excluding those who were referred but never seen — like Alice.
• At least one other trans youth suicide was also omitted from the data set, according to a mother who filed a Freedom of Information request.
• NHS England reportedly did not pass on coroners’ reports for these cases, meaning Appleby’s conclusions were based on incomplete data.

Dr. Litman has publicly called the report a “sham”, arguing that it fails basic standards of statistical evidence and misrepresents the reality faced by trans youth.

📚 Why This Matters The Appleby report was used by government officials — including Health Secretary Wes Streeting — to justify the continued ban on puberty blockers. If the data was incomplete, then the policy decisions based on it may be fundamentally flawed

 

[AuroraSaab]

Has there been an explosion of suicides of young adults and children, since drugs were stopped being handed out like sweeties?

No.

https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...gnificant,significant change in recent months

There's no reliable evidence that CAMHS children referred to gender clinics have a higher suicide risk than other CAMHS children with similar risk factors (depression, trauma, anxiety, autism).

Suicide risk is routinely invoked as a justification for giving children hormones, but as the Cass Report showed there is no good evidence that they improve mental health outcomes.

In fact, studies show that those who have surgery have higher death rates, including suicide, than those who don't.

Suggesting children will kill themselves without access to puberty blockers is promoting suicidal ideation. It's reckless.

 

[CXRAndy]

The Appleby report was used by government officials — including Health Secretary Wes Streeting — to justify the continued ban on puberty blockers. If the data was incomplete, then the policy decisions based on it may be fundamentally flawed

In your opinion

 

[monkers]

In your opinion

I didn't state an opinion.

 

[CXRAndy]

I didn't state an opinion.

So those are someone's else's opinion

 

[monkers]

So those are someone's else's opinion

It has become apparent that you have no ability to distinguish between truth and fiction, or truth and opinion.

The facts are that, parents used FOI requests to find out if their dead children were included. They weren't. The NHS had pre-filtered the data before sending to Appleby. No extra dead children data provided by NHS to Appleby - Appleby concludes, no extra dead children. Understand?

Meanwhile coroners' reports are available.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I read reports critically. Something that even AI manages. In the case of Alice Litman, her case was not put forward for review.

Alice Littman was on hormones. They were provided privately by (former) Dr Michael Webberley of Gender GP from April 2020. Alice Littman died in May 2022.

You might well argue that lack of psychiatric support contributes to suicide amongst CAMHS patients but that applies to all of them, not just those referred with gender dysphoria.

Michael Webberley was struck off as a doctor for 'a catalogue of failings' in respect of children and young people who sought help for gender dysphoria, including a 9 year old to whom he prescribed hormones after a 10 minute Skype chat.

It makes no sense for Appleby to review those waiting to be seen by the Tavistock rather than those already diagnosed. Until they are seen there's no diagnosis of gender dysphoria and they aren't 'gender' patients, they're just young people with mental health issues who might or might not be 'trans'. You're asumming every child on the list is 'trans' and further that every child would get hormones.