Gender again. Sorry!

[winjim]

I've noticed that (in the US particularly) it always seems to boil down to who can use which toilet. I have oft thought the world would be a better place if we could all agree that unless there is a urinal, a toilet can be used by anybody. My wife on the other hand says that if you let men into a toilet cubicle it will quickly become even more disgusting than it already may be...

From this I have deduced that we may never be able to resolve the toilet issue...

I saw someone suggest that fathers should not take their daughters out on trips until the daughter is of an age where she is able to use a public toilet on her own.

These people are deranged.

 

[AuroraSaab]

If it’s solely based on biology - sexed bodies as you put it - what hope is there for the future?

I think your impression may not be based on things I have actually written. My impression of you, for what it’s worth, is that you see anyone that doesn’t accept your (n my view) absolutist stance as an opponent of women’s equality. If true, that’s a shame.

When I say women's oppression is based on biology I mean it is because they are female; it cannot be escaped by saying you aren't a woman. I do not mean that men are biologically hard wired to abuse women. They aren't. Most men don't. The fact remains though that men, as a class, are statistically a risk to women in a way that women are not to men.

The hope for the future is that we educate and socialise men and boys to not be a risk or danger to women. Then the statistics will fall won't they? It's not entirely about risk of course but until then women need exclusive spaces and services away from men, regardless of how they identify, or what they are wearing.

I've been very lucky. The male members of my family, and my male friends, are all lovely. I don't think they should have access to women's single sex spaces though, however nice they are. Neither do they.

My stance is pretty straightforward. You can't change your sex. Women need and deserve exclusive language that describes their experiences (so do men). They need single sex spaces and services which exclude men, however they identify. Where a male body gives advantage men should be excluded from Women's sports.

There are other issues of course but we have been talking about the above of late.

It's not equality that we are talking about btw.

 

[newfhouse]

Can you explain further on the bold bit? - genuine question.

What I mean is that it seems reasonable to allow for preferences when it comes to sexual attraction, hence my qualification. This is a thought experiment as I’m happily monogamous, but if I fancied someone and it progressed to a physical relationship I think I would find their biology of some interest.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I think you might find that believing lesbians can rightfully exclude transwomen from their dating pool, and gay men can exclude transmen from theirs, is rather frowned upon. Genital preferences are considered transphobic. Welcome to the dark side, mate.

 

[mudsticks]

If you say so.

I'm sure most people will get by in life without using some ridiculous word.

I don't know what is classed as a 'narrow circle' in your book but I would agree they are of similar attitudes and outlook to life with similar interests (as most friends are I guess).

I probably see, speak, and drink with 25-30 different people on a weekly basis and a few more during the Summer months when the VW shows and scooter rallies start.

I doubt many even know what CIS means, I know didn't.

Just because you don't know a word or don't need to use it yourself doesn't immediately make it 'ridiculous'.

I'm sure there's plenty of words you use in your work, social and even sport life , that I'd never use.

I wouldn't write them off as 'ridiculous' just because they're not relevant to me.

A narrow circle of friends and acquaintances doesn't mean you have to be narrow minded.
But there does seem to be a bit of a correlation sometimes.

I thought what people said on Twitter was gospel, the amount of links and references and the importance of it to people on here surely it's right?

Why did you think that??

People post links to what has been said on twitter, in the same way they do to a newspaper article, or other information sharing sites

No one here has ever said it's all correct or all gospel truth - you're just making shoot up.

Most of it is peoples opinions or observations, but some of these opinions are from experts in their be field, and they're very much worth taking notice of.

Where do you get your information from btw?

How do you decide if those sources are trustworthy, or if the information is accurate ??

 

[newfhouse]

I think you might find that believing lesbians can rightfully exclude transwomen from their dating pool, and gay men can exclude transmen from theirs, is rather frowned upon. Genital preferences are considered transphobic. Welcome to the dark side, mate.

I think you may have mistaken me for an extremist.

Who we fancy is entirely personal, often quirky, sometimes hard to fathom, occasionally outside our control, but always in our own heads.

 

[AuroraSaab]

No, I think you're like most people. You want to accommodate people's desire to live as they wish, but when it comes to your own boundaries you are not so willing to be accommodating.

 

[Deleted member 28]

A narrow circle of friends and acquaintances doesn't mean you have to be narrow minded.
But there does seem to be a bit of a correlation sometimes.

I didn't realise I had a 'narrow circle of friends'?

I'm talking about people I actually speak to in real life, not internet buddies by the way.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Imagine, if you are able, a building filled with books still being written, like a library but continuously updated. Some volumes contain truth, some humour, some opinion, and some lies. That’s Twitter. The trick is to apply critical thinking skills, just as I’m sure we all do here.

I know I'm not 'on' twitter but as far as I can see anybody with anything to say whether it's complete bollo*ks or remotely informative can just carry on and people take notice of it.

I don't really think you would get people arguing the t*ss with a library book.

You carry on for me mate, I doubt I'm missing much if the snippets I see on this forum is anything to go by.

 

[Deleted member 28]

I saw someone suggest that fathers should not take their daughters out on trips until the daughter is of an age where she is able to use a public toilet on her own.

These people are deranged.

Where did you see that, Twitter?

I took my daughter camping (well campervanning) from 18mths along with her Brother who was 3 yrs older.

 

[newfhouse]

No, I think you're like most people. You want to accommodate people's desire to live as they wish, but when it comes to your own boundaries you are not so willing to be accommodating.

That’s a fair assessment; we all have likes and dislikes.

Note that I didn’t say anything about my own preferences, only that I believe a sexually intimate partner’s genitals would be of legitimate interest. I can’t see how that is controversial.

 

[newfhouse]

I know I'm not 'on' twitter but as far as I can see anybody with anything to say whether it's complete bollo*ks or remotely informative can just carry on and people take notice of it.

Pushy algorithms aside, that’s not much different to this forum apart from the fact that some users are well known and influential people, the breadth of topics, and the size of the potential audience.

You’re no better and no worse a person for either using or eschewing Twitter.

 

[winjim]

Where did you see that, Twitter?

I took my daughter camping (well campervanning) from 18mths along with her Brother who was 3 yrs older.

Yes, twitter, so it may just be someone talking bollocks. And yes, normal dads take their daughters out on trips and help them use the toilet.

I'm not sure I'm doing the thread any favours by bringing the real lunatics into it, it was more funny really because someone mentioned The Great Toilet Debate, but it does seem a weird sort of feminism that doesn't trust children's own fathers to take them to the toilet safely. It basically prohibits dads from taking their daughters out of the house on their own.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I know I'm not 'on' twitter but as far as I can see anybody with anything to say whether it's complete bollo*ks or remotely informative can just carry on and people take notice of it.

I don't really think you would get people arguing the t*ss with a library book.

You carry on for me mate, I doubt I'm missing much if the snippets I see on this forum is anything to go by.

Twitter is a bit like this place but bigger.

People go on both to say stuff they think is relevant and interesting.

People go on both to say that the above-mentioned are talking crap.

You are not on Twitter just a (much) lower grade version of it so are not really in a position to take the high ground.

Sorry @newfhouse, just noticed you'd said something similar.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Expressing a genital preference in a sexual partner is controversial (to some people), nwfhouse, because it shows you acknowledge that a man who identifies as a woman isn't actually a woman at all - because their 'woman-ness' depends on the situation.

If you regard them as a woman at work but exclude them as a sexual partner because they have a penis, that's considered transphobic by many trans activists, who will genuinely say 'Women can have penises' and 'Men can have vaginas'.

Funnily enough, the gay community seem to take umbrage a bit at this because it undermines the reality of same sex attraction that they fought so long to be allowed to express.