Gender again. Sorry!

[Deleted member 28]

Good news @shep , you have a secret admirer - possibly several if you count Sam's multiplicity of alter egos.

WTF?

 

[matticus]

Thanks for the new word btw Claude 'ludic' not come across that one before 👌🏼

Having googled, I'm pleased to see it means what I guessed - and that it IS a good description of Sam's internet output

 

[Deleted member 28]

I've used it in 'real life' too.
And I'm not even a brainy biochemist like Jim 🙄

More than happy to be 'dismissed' by someone who dismisses others on the basis of their use of a recognised and inoffensive word.



I think we've established quite a while back that your have a fairly narrow circle of acquaintance.

That's your choice of course, but it will also narrow your experience of the rich and glorious diversity of people to be found out there in
'the real world'

If you say so.

I'm sure most people will get by in life without using some ridiculous word.

I don't know what is classed as a 'narrow circle' in your book but I would agree they are of similar attitudes and outlook to life with similar interests (as most friends are I guess).

I probably see, speak, and drink with 25-30 different people on a weekly basis and a few more during the Summer months when the VW shows and scooter rallies start.

I doubt many even know what CIS means, I know didn't.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I’m pleased to find we are in accord.

Yes, but haven’t we agreed that behaviour is far more important than biology?

in what sense, or what specific areas?

The above sentence could also read as ... if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc.

I must admit to feeling even more confused about the issues raised as the thread goes along because on the one hand I want life for those people who genuinely feel that they have been born into the wrong sex/gender to be accepted and live as easy a life as possible without unfair discrimination, while on the other hand have problems in accepting that sex and gender have to be defined as the same or that the concerns of people who are worried about the practical social problems that have to be resolved are seen as transphobic.

 

[matticus]

They can, of course, choose the thorough route and examine all the science before deciding the best/most accurate science to follow, but most people will not.

Some topics are quite easy to spot the wrong science: does gravity work? Is the earth flat? Are dinosaurs still around?

The disagreements that are common in science are a very poor excuse for grasping at some ludicrous views.

 

[matticus]

I must admit to feeling even more confused about the issues raised as the thread goes along because on the one hand I want life for those people who genuinely feel that they have been born into the wrong sex/gender to be accepted and live as easy a life as possible without unfair discrimination, while on the other hand have problems in accepting that sex and gender have to be defined as the same or that the concerns of people who are worried about the practical social problems that have to be resolved are seen as transphobic.

There shouldn't be any confusion: you can be compassionate to a trans-woman AND ALSO know they are biologically still a man.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Wtf is going on there?

I'll have whatever he's on.

Some more visits to NACF are called for.

 

[Ian H]

There shouldn't be any confusion: you can be compassionate to a trans-woman AND ALSO know they are biologically still a man.

Here's an interesting read for you - https://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/transgender-flourishing

 

[newfhouse]

There shouldn't be any confusion: you can be compassionate to a trans-woman AND ALSO know they are biologically still a man.

I agree but in normal everyday situations - so not competitive sport, criminal justice, medicine, or intimate relationships - biology shouldn’t determine how you behave towards someone, should it?

 

[newfhouse]

The above sentence could also read as ... if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc.

For most social interactions that’s a fair way to proceed, I think.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

I agree but in normal everyday situations - so not competitive sport, criminal justice, medicine, or intimate relationships - biology shouldn’t determine how you behave towards someone, should it?

Can you explain further on the bold bit? - genuine question.

 

[newfhouse]

When you say you don't care about someone's genitalia or chromosomes you are saying you don't think their sex is relevant.

For most purposes, yes.

It's not just random that men commit most sexual assaults and women are mostly the victims.

Is it biology based or behaviour based, or a complicated amalgam of both about which we can consider the proportions in the mix? If it’s solely based on biology - sexed bodies as you put it - what hope is there for the future?

Should we not draw conclusions from this and respect women's need for spaces that exclude men, regardless of how they identify?

In some limited circumstances, yes. I’m sorry to say that I don’t have all of the details worked out. I haven’t yet been persuaded that either of the diametrically opposing views have the best answer.

And yet my impression is that you would deny women all these things.

I think your impression may not be based on things I have actually written. My impression of you, for what it’s worth, is that you see anyone that doesn’t accept your (n my view) absolutist stance as an opponent of women’s equality. If true, that’s a shame.

 

[Deleted member 28]

You mean the article is wrong because someone on Twitter says so?

I thought what people said on Twitter was gospel, the amount of links and references and the importance of it to people on here surely it's right?

 

[Ian H]

I thought what people said on Twitter was gospel, the amount of links and references and the importance of it to people on here surely it's right?

Twitter is as good, or as bad, as the people posting there. Just like here, really. You pick & choose who to follow, what to read.

 

[newfhouse]

I thought what people said on Twitter was gospel, the amount of links and references and the importance of it to people on here surely it's right?

Imagine, if you are able, a building filled with books still being written, like a library but continuously updated. Some volumes contain truth, some humour, some opinion, and some lies. That’s Twitter. The trick is to apply critical thinking skills, just as I’m sure we all do here.