Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

Drag artists are performers. It's neither a sexuality nor a gender identity. How could it be? They don't dress like that 24/7. Conflating 'male who performs a drag act' with 'male who identifies as a woman' just because drag involves performing an exaggerated characature of femininity is the same regressive sexism that says a girl with short hair who likes football must be a boy and a boy who likes long hair and ballet must be gay or a girl.

 

[multitool]

Some people are regressive sexists.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Grayson Perry is a keen cyclist apparently.
Here's the race director of the Tour of Gila speaking out on the issue of transwomen in the female category after transwoman Austin Killips' win:

'"I have worked with some of the best female cyclists in the world, and I saw them do extraordinary things right from the beginning,” he explains. “And here’s somebody (Killips) who nobody has ever heard of, who in a first UCI stage race [the 2022 Tour of the Gila] comes third"'.

https://archive.ph/kKA4Y#selection-3111.0-3115.63

Yesterday 40 plus transwoman Tara Seplavy won the Women's 3/4/5 at the Emrick Blvd Crit in Pennsylvania. Under the regs, self ID is allowed, no need to be on hrt or had surgery.


View: https://twitter.com/i_heart__bikes/status/1655735210187554817

 

[AuroraSaab]

Some people are regressive sexists.

Yes, it's amazing the number of people who think stereotypes of male and female dress and behaviour have something to do with what sex you are.

 

[AndyRM]

He now says he is trans.

Genderfluid. There's a difference.

 

[multitool]

Here's the race director of the Tour of Gila speaking out on the issue of transwomen in the female category after transwoman Austin Killips' win:

'"I have worked with some of the best female cyclists in the world, and I saw them do extraordinary things right from the beginning,” he explains. “And here’s somebody (Killips) who nobody has ever heard of, who in a first UCI stage race [the 2022 Tour of the Gila] comes third"'.

And here is the section of the article describing the threats he has received from the anti-trans mob:

"The abuse suffered by Engleman and his race staff since Killips’ win has been so severe – “the world changes,” he admits, “when you get a message from somebody saying, ‘We hope you get shot in the face’”

Nice people, these Gender Criticals.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Nothing to suggest the people sending him threats are gender critical feminists rather than just anti-trans right wingers. I could just as easily list a thousand death threats to JK Rowling and say 'Nice people these trans folk'.

Good to see those like Engelman speaking out though, especially when they've been under threat of being sacked or side lined.
"“Everyone’s too scared to touch it. But if we’re talking about change, we have to speak. There are some of us who need to make a stand.”

 

[multitool]

TW in sport is evolving and change will likely be needed in some areas. You won't find me arguing otherwise. What I do object to is the notion that they are cheating. They aren't. They are following the rules as they stand. It isn't, as yet, the overwhelming issue that the anti-trans mob will tell you it is, and there are much more serious and entrenched problems that this in women's sport.

Bit like shouting about toilets .

But, beware that pushing trans, or in fact anybody non-het out of public life is the aim of some groups. See the Dublin marathon, for example, and the outrage from 'phobes that it will have a new non-binary category. You cannot appease these people, and alongside trans rights they will take your rights as a woman. Happened already in the US with abortion.

 

[icowden]

If TW are materially or psychologically no different to any other man (as per the view of anybody who thinks transgender is an 'ideology' rather than a reality) then there is no difference between a trans woman and a drag queen.

Nope you have lost me. A drag queen is a man dressing up and having fun being fabulous. A transwoman is a man who now wants to live fully as a woman and believes that they are a woman, and for whom the only way forward it to make themselves look as much like a woman as possible.

Do you think adherents of Turning Point think TW are men or women?

Why does it matter?

 

[icowden]

Nice people, these Gender Criticals.

Almost as nice as those nice trans supporters threatening to kill and rape women.

It's almost like there are bad people on both sides.

 

[icowden]

TW in sport is evolving and change will likely be needed in some areas. You won't find me arguing otherwise. What I do object to is the notion that they are cheating. They aren't. They are following the rules as they stand. It isn't, as yet, the overwhelming issue that the anti-trans mob will tell you it is, and there are much more serious and entrenched problems that this in women's sport.

They *choose* to enter into sport in the women's category so that they can win. Whilst that might be permitted by the rules, I think many would see that as at least unsporting.

 

[multitool]

Nope you have lost me.

Yeah, seems to happen frequently

 

[Bromptonaut]

Grayson Perry's wife is the psychologist Phillipa Perry. She has a column in The Guardian. This was her answer to whether men should use women's facilities.

View attachment 3824

I think the qualifier around erections pretty much sums it up.

 

[Deleted member 121]

I think the qualifier around erections pretty much sums it up.

Is that a new Olympic event?

 

[multitool]

Is that a new Olympic event?

Yes, it's the precursor to the Tug of War