Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
I guess the answer could be less Yes/No and more along the line of it's complicated.
Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
- Start date
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I guess the answer could be less Yes/No and more along the line of it's complicated.
classic33
Senior Member
Limerick Prison is a mixed, medium security prison. Meaning Barbie isn't the only female in the prison. There's another 25 women in there.
AuroraSaab
Squire
It's not a mixed prison. There's a main male building and a separate women's section.
Here's the latest probation report on Barbie Kardashian. Read what they would like to do to their mother's genitals with a screwdriver. They have a guard on their door 24/7 because they say stuff like this.
Wouldn't BK be better in a unit for transwomen where more freedom might be allowed and it might be possible to receive some psychiatric care, rather than heavily supervised in a women's wing because they are so dangerous? This would both protect women and help BK.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40928486.html
Here's the latest probation report on Barbie Kardashian. Read what they would like to do to their mother's genitals with a screwdriver. They have a guard on their door 24/7 because they say stuff like this.
Wouldn't BK be better in a unit for transwomen where more freedom might be allowed and it might be possible to receive some psychiatric care, rather than heavily supervised in a women's wing because they are so dangerous? This would both protect women and help BK.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40928486.html
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classic33
Senior Member
Barbie has been in isolation since entering Limerick, away from other prisoners.
Limerick is a medium security, not high security prison. That would mean a transfer to Dublin, high security female prison.
AuroraSaab
Squire
And the reason for that is that they are an violent adult male in a women's prison. If it wasn't for self-ID they'd be in a male prison or male psychiatric ward and probably have more freedom.
matticus
Guru
Don't they make up most of prison populations?
classic33
Senior Member
He wasn't the person who made the application for the Gender Recognition Certificate. Being underage at the time it involved going through the courts, and having the decision, to allow it, made there. It was made for him, not by him.
She is in a woman's prison(isolation in a medium security prison) because she is a violent woman.
AuroraSaab
Squire
Doubt they could force a Gender Recognition Certificate on someone against their will. We'll have to disagree on the second point because they are male - there is nothing that makes BK different from any other of the 40 billion men on the planet.
I think your understandable compassion for people with mental health issues blinds you to the wider implications of self-ID. You used he/him 3 times in your post so I don't think you really believe they are female either.
I think your understandable compassion for people with mental health issues blinds you to the wider implications of self-ID. You used he/him 3 times in your post so I don't think you really believe they are female either.
AuroraSaab
Squire
We base safeguarding on risk. The law was rightly changed after Dunblane and Shipman, despite them being individual 'outliers'. Men who identify as women pose at least the same risk to women and girls as every other man does.
Women and girls are at higher risk in unisex spaces. We all know this. Self-ID makes every space a unisex space because legally there will be no grounds to exclude any man.
AuroraSaab
Squire
Transwomen actually have a higher rate of sex offending than other non trans men. And of course a far, far higher rate of sex offending than women. There's no evidence that a man identifying as a woman is less likely to offend than any other man. They have male patterns of offending.... why wouldn't they?
You then have to consider whether that's because:
1. Transwomen are more likely to be sex offenders than other men, and vastly more likely to be sex offenders than women.
2. Some men will say they are women in order to get softer sentences and a place in a women's prison - ie. they are abusing the self-ID process.
3. A bit of both 1 and 2.
But if you insist that men are women simply because they say so, then it's Number 1.
You then have to consider whether that's because:
1. Transwomen are more likely to be sex offenders than other men, and vastly more likely to be sex offenders than women.
2. Some men will say they are women in order to get softer sentences and a place in a women's prison - ie. they are abusing the self-ID process.
3. A bit of both 1 and 2.
But if you insist that men are women simply because they say so, then it's Number 1.
classic33
Senior Member
We can only guess at that, but the law in Ireland excluded him, due to being a minor, from applying himself.
Nothing blinding me on this, and I have said there must have something else going on when he came to the attention of authorities at the age of 12. I have used he/him when the situation referred to him before the certificate applied for and given, her/she since she was granted the certificate.
And it seems as though we were both wrong on the number of women in Limerick prison. 48 women held there, as of yesterday. With no separate record kept of transwomen numbers.
https://www.irishprisons.ie/informa...s-information/2015-daily-prisoner-population/
classic33
Senior Member
You have access to the figures/data to back the above up?
AuroraSaab
Squire
This article says there have been only 11 women jailed for sex offences in Ireland since 2007. The research data reference is in the notes at the bottom but is behind a pay wall.
So that's 11 women in 15 years. Yet there were 3 transwomen jailed for sex related offences in the space of just a few years since self-ID was introduced. You could argue that biological women sex offenders are more likely to receive non custodial sentences but it's still a huge discrepancy.
Looks like the transwoman caught with thousands of child abuse images was released before Christmas.
https://www.oneinfour.ie/blog/break...007, there have been,sexual offences in 20186.
So that's 11 women in 15 years. Yet there were 3 transwomen jailed for sex related offences in the space of just a few years since self-ID was introduced. You could argue that biological women sex offenders are more likely to receive non custodial sentences but it's still a huge discrepancy.
Looks like the transwoman caught with thousands of child abuse images was released before Christmas.
https://www.oneinfour.ie/blog/break...007, there have been,sexual offences in 20186.
AuroraSaab
Squire
Here's research that backs up the prison stats:
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
"Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls."
ie. Transwomen offend at a higher rate than other men, not just at a higher rate than women. And these are the ones who have gone through surgery.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
"Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls."
ie. Transwomen offend at a higher rate than other men, not just at a higher rate than women. And these are the ones who have gone through surgery.
