Gender again. Sorry!

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classic33

Senior Member
If you mean BC's decision I think you'll find there's now more classes than before. The women and open classes are relevant to elite and pro cyclists only.

Your "argument" all along has been on two points. Men are dangerous(women can never be), which "backs up" the other side of your argument that there are men, posing as trans women purely and simply to gain access to women only spaces/areas. Not once have you considered that boys(school age) are afforded the same rights. Mainly because of your belief that women aren't dangerous. Why are so many in prison, or hospitals, diminished responsibilities, if there are no dangerous women?
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
I've never said women aren't dangerous, or that they don't comit sex crimes. Statistically though, men overwhelmingly comit the vast majority of them. It's about 95% plus in most countries. 4% of the UK prison population are female, so not that many considering they are half the population.

I don't think all transwomen are predators. I do think they are all men. I don't see why they should be given access to female spaces and services that we don't give to other men just because they say they are women.

I don't know what you mean about school age boys.
 

multitool

Shaman
Me reading Aurora's posts


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D

Deleted member 121

Guest
Page 293. Impressive. We're getting close to the number of times Ozzy set fire to Bill Wards beard which on last audit was 303 times. I know we can do it!
 

multitool

Shaman
Here's some recent polling about attitudes towards one's children being gay, trans etc.

So, despite the hateful rhetoric being pumped out by right-wing press, populist politicians and useful idiots, the truth is only a tiny minority of people are bigots

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Spain is particularly interesting. Only 5% would be unsupportive of trans child. Given that they have Self ID laws, you'd expect hostility...if you believe the transphobe narrative that self ID = the end of the world.
 
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Ian H

Guru
There are now two categories; Women's and Open. I have yet to hear a convincing reason why cyclists like Emily Bridges cannot ride in the Open category.
On a purely practical level, you can't run a road race if you don't have enough entrants. Tell me how many elite trans cyclists there are.
So it's pretty much effectively a ban.
 

multitool

Shaman
Kellie-Jay Keen:

Q. How are we going to defend accusations of being Nazis?

A. You can't.


View: https://twitter.com/ICanSeeForever1/status/1662020548375851008?s=20




Errr.....yes you can.
 
OP
OP
theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
I'm not the one trumpeting the existence of dsd/intersex people as some sort of proof that sex is a spectrum. That's 'your' side

I'm a boring individual, so I searched the thread to see who (if anyone) had said this. The answer is no-one, excluding a brief aside from FishFright, who is not currently participating in the thread. @winjim and @newfhouse both talk a bit about spectrums - they are not claiming that gender is a spectrum but either critically interrogating the idea or referring to something else (like autism). Even Monkers explicitly says she is not claiming that sex is a spectrum. This is why almost everyone gets pissed off with your misrepresenting their positions and constant playing to the gallery. I don't say this to back up Classic, who as ever is conducting his own thread about his own preoccupations, one of which seems to be to pretend that violence isn't gendered.

Sex is not a spectrum, but it is and always has been an unstable category, with contingent meanings, grey areas, and real-world situations that unsettle its certainties. If everything arising from it were so natural and inevitable, why would it need have needed the violent enforcement of the patriarchy over so many centuries, and why does it require so much cultural work (like the crusade you're on now) to uphold it? Gender is an edifice built on unstable foundations. I hate to break this to you, but you're never going to get the certainty you want. Upset by the disintegration of epistemological certainty, which they usually blame on some group or other presenting a challenge to the status quo, many people reach for authoritarianism to try to enforce the certainties they crave.

Anyway, one of those grey areas / unsettling realities is people with DSDs. The fact that sporting classifications can't cope with their existence is hardly surprising, as society as a whole can't cope with it either - hence railroading them into a binary category at birth (which, contrary to your suggestion, has not just happened in developing countries). This is just a more violent and obviously coercive manifestation of the process by which everyone is railroaded - which is why, unlike some feminists (and now many people who aren't feminists at all, but have appropriated feminist ideas to regressive ends) I have never objected to the term 'assigned female (or male) at birth', which has always seemed to me accurately to describe the initiation of a social/cultural process and the most important real distinction between men and women. The athletes you denigrate were, by and large, AFAB, with all the real-world consequences that arise from that, and that makes them girls and women in exactly the same way that it makes me a woman. Throwing Caster Semenya under the bus to make a point about trans women was the first time I had noticed what a dreadful person Sharron Davies was, but sadly things have got a lot worse from there.

[Obviously I'm aware that Aurora will ignore all of this, but if she can play to the gallery, then the rest of us can play that game.]
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
Here's some recent polling about attitudes towards one's children being gay, trans etc. So, despite the hateful rhetoric being pumped out by right-wing press, populist politicians and useful idiots, the truth is only a tiny minority of people are bigots.

People not minding their child being gay isn't the same as agreeing with biological males competing in female sports or being placed in male prisons.

LOL were you actually living in Britain in the 80s?

Yes, and it's long been an issue that muscular women were insulted as being like men. Bodybuilders especially, black female athletes especially. Whitbread might have been a prominent one but there are dozens of athletic women who people would say with derision 'Looks like a bloke'. Not helped by advertisers presenting bikini models as 'athletes'.
On a purely practical level, you can't run a road race if you don't have enough entrants. Tell me how many elite trans cyclists there are.
So it's pretty much effectively a ban.

How is it a ban? They are being assigned to the Open category where they can ride with other biological males. There's no 'trans' category.

Kellie-Jay Keen:

Q. How are we going to defend accusations of being Nazis?

A. You can't.

Errr.....yes you can.

KJK has disassociated herself from the Nazis who turned up in Australia. Her position is that she doesn't apologise for them because she didn't ask them to turn up and no amount of apologising would ever satisfy her critics.

It doesn't matter what people say you will continue to call anybody who criticises the idea of gender ideology as sexist, homophobic, and regressive, as Nazis and bigots because it's all you have to fall back on. Just like you did earlier today for the millionth time.

..... the truth is only a tiny minority of people are bigots
 

multitool

Shaman
People not minding their child being gay isn't the same as agreeing with biological males competing in female sports or being placed in male prisons.
It doesn't matter what people say you will continue to call anybody who criticises the idea of gender ideology as sexist, homophobic, and regressive, as Nazis and bigots because it's all you have to fall back on. Just like you did earlier today for the millionth time.

It's really weird how you relate everything and anything that anybody posts here to yourself.

(obviously with the subsequent addition of trademark AuroraSaab misrepresentation and hyperbole. Because of course, without that your talking points just look silly. All of them...which is, fundamentally, the point).
 
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