Gender again. Sorry!

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AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
Like I said, the current, slower women's marathon record time isn't on the list.
Simple really.

Because they record 2 times? One done in a mixed marathon and one done in a women's only marathon. How is it relevant that there is also a slower women's only record? If anything it further proves the point that there are few events in which women out perform males.
 

classic33

Senior Member
So I didn't say 'I sanction genital inspections on schoolkids' as you claimed. I said a note from the GP would probably suffice. The doctor would presumably have access to their medical records; no genital inspection required.

The children in question will be boys who identify as girls
and whose inclusion in female sports would be unfair to girls.

A PE teacher demanding a note from a medical doctor is akin to sexual assault? Did you never get a note from your mum to say you were on your period and couldn't go swimming? Kids routinely provide notes from doctors to school for everything from needing the toilet a lot to not doing PE because of x, y, or z.

You seem pretty upset about the invasion of privacy and dignity for a boy who identifies as a girl and not at all bothered about the privacy and dignity, or fairness, of the girls who have to compete against, or share changing and showering facilities with them.

Yes, sex testing in sport has always been directed at women because, guess what, there is no advantage to a country to have its female athletes competing in the male class.
And you know that for certain, how?
 
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theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
So I didn't say 'I sanction genital inspections on schoolkids' as you claimed. I said a note from the GP would probably suffice. The doctor would presumably have access to their medical records; no genital inspection required.

The children in question will be boys who identify as girls and whose inclusion in female sports would be unfair to girls.

A PE teacher demanding a note from a medical doctor is akin to sexual assault? Did you never get a note from your mum to say you were on your period and couldn't go swimming? Kids routinely provide notes from doctors to school for everything from needing the toilet a lot to not doing PE because of x, y, or z.

You seem pretty upset about the invasion of privacy and dignity for a boy who identifies as a girl and not at all bothered about the privacy and dignity, or fairness, of the girls who have to compete against, or share changing and showering facilities with them.

Yes, sex testing in sport has always been directed at women because, guess what, there is no advantage to a country to have its female athletes competing in the male class.

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but it was literally in the original bill that you were waving airily away. Of any participant whose sex is disputed. Girls, in other words, who someone doesn't think look girly enough. Absolutely wild that somewhere on this thread or another you were claiming to be a gender abolitionist. Now you're totally cool with enforcing femininity through legalised sexual assault of minors.
If a participant's sex is disputed, she must verify her sex with a physician in "only" the following ways.
An exam of her internal and external reproductive anatomy.
Her normal "endogenously produced levels of testosterone."
An analysis of her genetic makeup.​
 
Yes, obviously. That didn't stop a barrage of posts accusing her of TERFdom though. Remember if you commit wrongspeak intentionally or otherwise you must be condemned unless you perform the necessary penitence.

And although most of the awards might go to men, the important thing is that they go to people regardless of gender because we live in an entirely equal society, so women and men no longer need their own categories.

The bolded bit is missing an irony switch...
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
Now you're totally cool with enforcing femininity through legalised sexual assault of minors.
I am absolutely not ok with that if that were to be what would happen. I am saying there should be no need for that to happen at all.
If a participant's sex is disputed, she must verify her sex with a physician in "only" the following ways.
An exam of her internal and external reproductive anatomy.
Her normal "endogenously produced levels of testosterone." Blood test?
An analysis of her genetic makeup. Cheek swab?

The wording has been dropped from the prospective Ohio law. The wording now requires production of a birth certificate apparently.

Ensuring that someone is eligible to compete on girls teams isn't enforcing femininity. It's ensuring fairness for female athletes.

'Anyone who doesn't look girly enough'? Do you honestly imagine a school will have no idea that they are putting forward a transgender female athlete to compete? They are not going to be questioning the eligibility of girls just because they have short hair.

When female athletes are surveyed they seem to be against allowing transwomen to compete in the female category. Fair to assume there are gender non conforming (for want of a better term) women amongst those who object.

Just to be clear, Claud, are you in favour of allowing trangirls to compete in the girls category at school level sports? University level? Amateur level generally?
 
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classic33

Senior Member
British Cycling have announced their updated policy today. Have moved to a Women's category and an Open category. Nobody's banned, just expected to ride in the appropriate category.


View: https://twitter.com/BritishCycling/status/1662036051659980800

Only at elite and pro levels.

I have to say that you seem to take a perverse delight when any governing body makes changes that align with your views.

Interesting to note that it's resulted in further calls for it to be wound up as it's considered not fit for purpose agai.
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
Yes, I'm pleased that BC are ensuring fairness for female riders in competitive cycling. I don't think that's a perverse delight. Funny that you interpret anything that stops trans identifying males getting their own way as 'perverse delight' though. It's relevant to the topic and this is a cycling forum after all.

Who's calling for British Cycling to be wound up? Professional women riders or people who benefit from riding in the female category, like Emily Bridges?

Why can't Emily Bridges ride in the Open category?
 

matticus

Guru
I have to say that you seem to take a perverse delight when any governing body makes changes that align with your views.
partridge-i-dont-know.gif
 

classic33

Senior Member
Yes, I'm pleased that BC are ensuring fairness for female riders in competitive cycling. I don't think that's a perverse delight. Funny that you interpret anything that stops trans identifying males getting their own way as 'perverse delight' though. It's relevant to the topic and this is a cycling forum after all.

Who's calling for British Cycling to be wound up? Professional women riders or people who benefit from riding in the female category, like Emily Bridges?

Why can't Emily Bridges ride in the Open category?
From reading the responses to what you posted, and not just on twitter, it's people paying yearly membership. The very people who are keeping it going.

This isn't a cycling forum, it's a small offshoot section.

Funny how you never seem to get past the headline, and use that to justify your cause as being just.
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
Sledgehammer looking for a nut, is what comes to mind

Is there a number of male born riders in the female class at which you think it should be regarded as a problem? 5? 10? Does this apply to doping in competitive sports too? One or two isn't really a problem? I'm not sure that's how fairness in sports works.

It avoids another Emily Bridges/Lia Thomas type situation and clarifies the position.

Funny how you never seem to get past the headline, and use that to justify your cause as being just.

I think fairness in women's sports is a 'just' cause, Classic. I suppose you can cancel your BC membership if you're in it, or continue to advocate for your cause of including male born people in the female category from within BC. Just like other members had to advocate for their view.
 

icowden

Legendary Member
No, it sparked a barrage of 'Gender critical' idiots thinking she was one of them.
Why do you think you named her in your list? :laugh:
Because I was making a quick illustrative list.
And yes, your point illustrates mine. As soon as someone says something about gender, people from both sides will immediately claim victory for their point of view. She's a TERF! She isn't a TERF!

Quite why you insist that all people supporting the trans movement are holier than thou and wouldn't hurt a fly is at odds with the abuse that some women are receiving.
 
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