Gender again. Sorry!

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theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
I suggest we get serious about eradicating gender differences

The report is literally suggesting that we stop dividing humans into two unequal classes at birth based on their external genitalia. I can't recall anything you've yet suggested that makes a comparable move towards eradicating gender difference.
 

FishFright

Well-Known Member
Does this research answers one important question? Namely how many people suffer from gender dystopia, because if you listen to the trans-activist you get all kind of crazy numbers, but no facts to back it up.
Whilst i agree they should be able to be who they want to be it sounds a bit silly to abolish all gender profiles for a so far i have seen/read research about this topic very small group of people suffering from this condition. It sounds a bit like creating an bigger issue to solve a smaller one.

Very few , IIRC - 0.003%* of the population . You'd think there was massive crisis of huge gangs of trans folk roaming the streets or something if you followed the media leads.

*This is the number of people who complete a gender reassignment not those who question their own place on the spectrum.
 
The report is literally suggesting that we stop dividing humans into two unequal classes at birth based on their external genitalia. I can't recall anything you've yet suggested that makes a comparable move towards eradicating gender difference.

But when women are oppressed because they belong to that particular class, pretending that that oppression can somehow be eradicated by getting rid of the distinctions between the 2 classes makes no sense. How does stopping recording births as male or female help girls who face female genital mutilation? How does it reduce the 1 in 6 likelihood that a woman will be the victim of sexual assault?
 
OP
OP
theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
But when women are oppressed because they belong to that particular class, pretending that that oppression can somehow be eradicated by getting rid of the distinctions between the 2 classes makes no sense. How does stopping recording births as male or female help girls who face female genital mutilation? How does it reduce the 1 in 6 likelihood that a woman will be the victim of sexual assault?

Initiation into that class begins at birth. Formal registration and social rituals around binary sex difference affirm that class structure and uphold the myth that there are two different kinds of human being.

It's a proposed legal reform. Legal reforms alone don't fix complex social problems, they just try to improve the framework we use to understand those problems, bring law into line with changes in how social phenomena are understood, and make it possible to gain redress for harms which currently fall through the net.

The interaction between the GRA 2004 and the EA 2010 creates a flashpoint. You could characterise it as bad law (I'm obviously not a lawyer), but both acts have important human rights implications which most people can understand, so law reform needs to safeguard the rights currently protected whilst doing all the things above. I believe the report is a good-faith exploration of some of the possibilities of reform in this area, with bigger picture thinking that makes it potentially exciting feminist territory. I don't think it warrants the entrenched hostility you're bringing to it.
 
Initiation into that class begins at birth. Formal registration and social rituals around binary sex difference affirm that class structure and uphold the myth that there are two different kinds of human being.

There was no oppression of women until writing stuff down was invented? There are countries with communities where births aren't recorded, where people have no official recording of sex at all throughout their whole lives ..... women in these communities don't face discrimination, prejudice, being forced into certain roles?

Dropping recording of sex will have zero positive impact for women. If you can't see sex you can't see sexism.

I'm hostile to it because it is self ID presented as a feminist endeavour when we all know self ID is bad for women and girls.
 
You're not too old, Mr C. Just be sure to self ID as 19 when you sign up. You can even join the Women's branch if you like. Hope that helps.
 
OP
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theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
There was no oppression of women until writing stuff down was invented?

:rolleyes:
 
You still haven't explained in detail how not filling in the sex column on birth certificates is going to bring down the patriarchy. Other than us all having an epiphany of 'We're all just human beings after all ...'
 
OP
OP
theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
You still haven't explained in detail how not filling in the sex column on birth certificates is going to bring down the patriarchy. Other than us all having an epiphany of 'We're all just human beings after all ...'

I've run out of patience with this kind of bad-faith misrepresentation and idiotic reductivism. Constantly attributing things to me which bear no relation to what I think or say, and commenting at length on the research without engaging with its most basic premises. I regard your position on this issue as essentially conservative with a spot of feminist window-dressing, and I think that projects like the one I linked to have far much more to offer in terms of both serious feminist analysis and a way to move beyond entrenched enmities. Something about the subject makes you go Full Craig.

For anyone actually interested in figuring out what they think about this stuff, the project podcasts are very good.

https://anchor.fm/futuregender
 
There was no oppression of women until writing stuff down was invented? There are countries with communities where births aren't recorded, where people have no official recording of sex at all throughout their whole lives ..... women in these communities don't face discrimination, prejudice, being forced into certain roles?

Dropping recording of sex will have zero positive impact for women. If you can't see sex you can't see sexism.

I'm hostile to it because it is self ID presented as a feminist endeavour when we all know self ID is bad for women and girls.
No because of the 0.003% of the world population with misgender condition we have to pretend genders don't exist. that it something like picking a apple or an cherry pie. would love to add more words but that's the point..
 
There's nothing more conservative than thinking an oppressor can opt into an oppressed group, ie. males can become female. Sex as a material axis of oppression is Marxism 101.

I don't think you're conservative though. I think you just want to be kind. I think you imagine stuff like this somehow helps gender non conforming women. It doesn't. It's to their detriment and the detriment of all women and girls.
 
OP
OP
theclaud

theclaud

Reading around the chip
There's nothing more conservative than thinking an oppressor can opt into an oppressed group, ie. males can become female. Sex as a material axis of oppression is Marxism 101.

I don't think you're conservative though. I think you just want to be kind. I think you imagine stuff like this somehow helps gender non conforming women. It doesn't. It's to their detriment and the detriment of all women and girls.

LOL you're going to Marxplain as well now? :laugh:
 
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