Gender again. Sorry!

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"No one has all the information, but violence (by trans people) ... isn't a problem that data shows," said Carla Majdalani, head of the UN Women's programme against gender-based violence in Argentina."

It's not simply about transwomen being a risk. As I repeatedly tell you, setting the bar at 'only counts if you're raped' shows how little you value women's privacy and dignity. They have a right to be away from all men, including transwomen, in spaces where they are unclothed or feel vulnerable. Self-ID removes that right. And when women can't complain because the law allows men entry, well they will simply self-exclude or put up with it without reporting their distress.

You simply can't bring yourself to acknowledge that women are allowed to say no to having men in their single sex spaces, not just for safety but for privacy and dignity.

The fact that you harp on about stats you won't even provide shows how blinkered your thinking is. How many women have to object to men in their changing rooms before it counts? 51%? 90%?

You're just a patronising, sweary, old school misogynist who thinks women should give up their spaces because a tiny percentage of the male population believes they have a right to be in them.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
And most women.

Don't forget the women.
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
Blimey.
We're back at Wimbledon 2001, Pete Sampras in his prime, the king of Centre Court, expected to swat aside a callow Swiss teenager by the name of Roger Federer. But hang on, what are we seeing?

Thomas Kuhn told me there'd be days like this.

This is civilised stuff. Pop over to the Meat is Murder thread if you want to see the equivalent of Kyrgios vs McEnroe. :boxing:
 

multitool

Pharaoh
This is civilised stuff. Pop over to the Meat is Murder thread if you want to see the equivalent of Kyrgios vs McEnroe. :boxing:

It's surreal.

Two people throwing clumps of shite at each other, whilst others calmly reminisce over Watneys Party Seven.


Anyhow, here's a little amuse-bouche to enrage Aurora. It's a tweet from UN Women, which is the United Nations entity for gender equality and women's empowerment.
 

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It doesn't enrage me. The UN has long gone full on for gender ideology. Yet on the other hand they support initiatives to provide separate toilets for schools in the developing world so girls can go to school. They know that otherwise girls are not safe.

Almost as if they will virtue signal with their little graphics but know what the real life issue is.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
.
It's not simply about transwomen being a risk. As I repeatedly tell you, setting the bar at 'only counts if you're raped' shows how little you value women's privacy and dignity. They have a right to be away from all men, including transwomen, in spaces where they are unclothed or feel vulnerable. Self-ID removes that right. And when women can't complain because the law allows men entry, well they will simply self-exclude or put up with it without reporting their distress.

It's really hard to have a discussion with you when your one tactic is to move the goalposts when whatever untrue crap you posted upthread is proven to be untrue crap. You do it over and over again.

The latest example:

MT: There is no evidence that there is an increase in offending rates in countries with SelfID

AS: That's because in selfID countries trans women crimes are now attributable to women. There is no distinction, so any selfIDing TW crimes are hidden. But it has increased because I say so. My hatred of trans women is so strong that they must have offended.

MT: But look at this data from Argentina. Clearly, they are logging selfIDing crimes separately from cis women, so what you said about crime figures cannot be true.

AS: ITS NOT JUST ABOUT CRIMES AS I KEEP TELLING YOU AND YOU ARE A MAN WHO HATES WOMEN!!!


Your debating skills are sub sixth form level. You generalise, lie, deflect, and put up endless straw men. I would define your arguments as specious, but that would imply they are superficially plausible.

It's no wonder that everyone else has given up.

(AS: ITS BECAUSE IM RIGHT!)

And now, I'm giving up with you too.
 
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You've provided no evidence they are recording crimes by transwomen separately in Argentina. Why would they? It wouldn't be self-ID if they were. Your link mentions 'there was a reported crime by a transwoman' - this could just have easily been because the news report photo was very obviously a man, despite it being reported/recorded as a female crime. It's not evidence they are recording such crimes separately. US news reports will report crimes as female crimes and you simply wouldn't know unless you saw the photo.

This one's from Australia. This is self-ID at work. These are not women's crimes, but they will be recorded, and often reported, as such.

FkKpivXacAEnUTW.jpeg


Loads of examples from the US where data suggest transwomen are disproportionately likely to be imprisoned for sex offences:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/4w.pub/50-of-trans-inmates-in-federal-custody-for-sex-offences/amp/

"According to the document, 48.47% of biological male inmates identifying as women are in federal custody for sex offences, compared to just 4.71% of biological females identifying as men, and 11.2% of the non-transgender male population of federal inmates in general."

Here's another example of self-ID, from Brazil.

https://reduxx.info/brazil-female-s...washroom-access-says-she-was-afraid-of-dying/

uMUmfZLl.jpeg


The thing is I don't think most of these crimes are being committed by people with genuine body dysphoria. They are being committed by men with a fetish. Self-ID aids and abets them.

You seem to think they are genuinely transgender but 'outliers'. Quite a lot of outliers for such a tiny proportion of the population though.

We can't tell the good guys from the bad so we exclude them all because the common denominator of the people who make us uncomfortable and are a risk is that they are male.
 
You seem to think they are genuinely transgender but 'outliers'. Quite a lot of outliers for such a tiny proportion of the population though.

We can't tell the good guys from the bad so we exclude them all because the common denominator of the people who make us uncomfortable and are a risk is that they are male.
They're outliers. Whether they're 'really' trans is a side question.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
It's fascinating to contrast the nature of debate in different spaces. The OP was a discussion of whether law could and should be degendered. It requires being able to hold several thoughts in the mind simultaneously. The political discussions in Scotland over self ID were centred on pragmatism.

And then we have this, in the public space:



It popped up on my twitter feed, so I watched it. I managed 5 minutes before I could bare no more, because its for boneheads. It is a brain-crushingly simplistic, fact-free, empathy-void of bumgravy.

Who actually watches this shite?
 
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Fab Foodie

Legendary Member
It's fascinating to contrast the nature of debate in different spaces. The OP was a discussion of whether law could and should be degendered. It requires being able to hold several thoughts in the mind simultaneously. The political discussions in Scotland over self ID were centred on pragmatism.

And then we have this, in the public space:



It popped up on my twitter feed, so I watched it. I managed 5 minutes before I could bare no more, because its for boneheads. It is a brain-cruingly simplistic, fact-free, empathy-void of bumgravy.

Who actually watches this shite?


Err, you did....;)
 
Plenty of left wing women also oppose gender ideology. Unfortunately they often find themselves driven out of their jobs like Prof Kathleen Stock forced out of her uni post, or Suzanne Moore and Hadley Freeman leaving The Guardian.

Kellie Jay Keen is an activist. She will use whatever platform she can find to promote her activism because she does not perceive women's rights as a Right/Left issue.
Certainly in the US it's near impossible to get feminist views heard on these issues so it's not surprising women campaigners end up on shows with men like Tucker Carlson or Matt Walsh. They are the only ones prepared to cover the issues.

Kellie Jay Keen is one type of women's rights activists but she isn't the whole story. I could post you videos or photos of some fairly extreme transactivists in action if you like. But they would just be 'outliers' I suppose.
 

mudsticks

Squire
.

It's really hard to have a discussion with you when your one tactic is to move the goalposts when whatever untrue crap you posted upthread is proven to be untrue crap. You do it over and over again.

The latest example:

MT: There is no evidence that there is an increase in offending rates in countries with SelfID

AS: That's because in selfID countries trans women crimes are now attributable to women. There is no distinction, so any selfIDing TW crimes are hidden. But it has increased because I say so. *My hatred of trans women is so strong that they must have offended.

MT: But look at this data from Argentina. Clearly, they are logging selfIDing crimes separately from cis women, so what you said about crime figures cannot be true.

AS: ITS NOT JUST ABOUT CRIMES AS I KEEP TELLING YOU AND YOU ARE A MAN WHO HATES WOMEN!!!


Your debating skills are sub sixth form level. You generalise, lie, deflect, and put up endless straw men. I would define your arguments as specious, but that would imply they are superficially plausible.

It's no wonder that everyone else has given up.

(AS: ITS BECAUSE IM RIGHT!)

And now, I'm giving up with you too.
You throw around accusations such as 'your debating skills are sub 6th form'

When that's very much the sort of barb that poor debaters routinely use. To try to undermine and belittle their 'opponent'

There are legitimate concerns over self IDing transwomen accessing the safe spaces of already vulnerable women.


Prisons and refuges being the two most problematic that I can see.
It's very easy for priveleged women such as myself and the majority of men to dismiss these concerns as 'just a big old fuss over nothing' as it makes us look big and progressive.


Whatever the risk, however little it may be 'statistically' it's still there, and women already fearful, already having suffered harm's at the hands of male bodied persons aren't going to be reassured by 'statistics'.

You talk of the 'lack of empathy' coming from the person in the film who may well be going all out reactionary (they're an outlier themselves even?).
But I don't see much empathy from yourself on legitimate concerns, over protecting already vulnerable women.

If vulnerable women - including vulnerable transwomen weren't so much at risk from male harassment and violence then the 'debate' wouldn't need to be had nearly so much.

I see a lot of people very strong (understandably so) on sticking up for transpeople.
Who at the same time seem rather unconcerned and passive over genuinely tackling VAWAG..
As if that's a 'seperate' issue - it very much isn't

It's the root cause of much of this debate in the first place.


* And this is a massively unfair accusation, in other threads (even in this one) AS has defended transpeople and their right to exist.

She doesn't hate transwomen at all.

Maybe first look to your own debating style, before you try to take down someone else's.
 
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