Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

CTT have just announced new policy. I think it's the same as British Cycling, you can check here:

https://cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/articles/view/302

I think this is the key text:

This is nuts. One woman I know will be furious, she is a non-binary cis woman. Now she is included in the blanket ban.

Biology - female from birth. Puberty - female. No hormone therapy, gender identity 'unsensed' as she puts it, (like you Aurora, no sense of it but she doesn't deny its existence, she's therefore non-binary. Pronouns neutral, they, them.

Banned. Well done Aurora and the rest of you numbskulls, cis women banned from women's competitions.

Banned for not using the 'correct' pronouns.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You can't stop yourself from being rude lol. This protects the female category from those with a male advantage. Your friend isn't banned.

Banned. Well done Aurora and the rest of you numbskulls, cis women banned from women's competitions.

Not banned but if your friend doesn't regard themselves as a woman why would they complain about being banned from that class? Perhaps they should campaign for a nb class like in marathons.

Banned for not using the 'correct' pronouns.

Hardly. The policy says "applies to transgender persons, that means all persons who wish to compete in a gender other than was assigned to them at birth" ie they can be non binary, but sounds like they can compete in the female class if they wish as they were born female.

Seems like a sensible decision that follows the science.

 

[monkers]

You can't stop yourself from being rude lol. This protects the female category from those with a male advantage. Your friend isn't banned.


Not banned but if your friend doesn't regard themselves as a woman why would they complain about being banned from that class? Perhaps they should campaign for a nb class like in marathons.



Hardly. The policy says "applies to transgender persons, that means all persons who wish to compete in a gender other than was assigned to them at birth" ie they can be non binary, but sounds like they can compete in the female class if they wish as they were born female.

Seems like a sensible decision that follows the science.

Proof positive that you are an idiot. You might hope that I might stop saying it. Even if I stop saying it, it won't prevent you presenting as an idiot.

 

[AuroraSaab]

If your friend was perfectly happy riding in the Women's class before, I don't see what has changed. They don't have to ride in the Open class.

Also...

One woman I know will be furious, she is a non-binary cis woman. Now she is included in the blanket ban. Biology - female from birth. Puberty - female. No hormone therapy, gender identity 'unsensed' as she puts it, (like you Aurora, no sense of it but she doesn't deny its existence, she's therefore non-binary. Pronouns neutral, they, them.
Banned for not using the 'correct' pronouns.

You just mis-pronouned your own non binary they/them friend an awful lot. I'm pretty sure they could ride in the Women's class just as they happily did before.

 

[monkers]

If your friend was perfectly happy riding in the Women's class before, I don't see what has changed. They don't have to ride in the Open class.

Also...



You just mis-pronouned your own non binary they/them friend an awful lot. I'm pretty sure they could ride in the Women's class just as they happily did before.

Clarity was needed because I was explaining to a real life idiot.

My friend is a biological woman. My friend is married to a biological man. Together they have two small children. The children call my friend 'Mum'.

My friend enjoys cycling, especially time trialling. My friend has always ridden in the women's category with non-binary status in amateur club level events.

Non-binary relates to gender identity not sex.

All of your constructed argument has centred on biology - that 'biological men' should not be allowed to ride in the women's class.

My friend is not a biological man, not a trans man, not a trans woman; my friend is a biological female who went through female puberty, is not going through a medicalised transition.

My friend does not use male pronouns.

My friend will be treated unequally; and you think that is a good thing.

You've just killed feminism.

 

[AndyRM]

Not all binary people use they/them in any case...

 

[icowden]

Clarity was needed because I was explaining to a real life idiot.

You are weakening your point. There was no idiocy in @AuroraSaab's posts.

My friend is not a biological man, not a trans man, not a trans woman; my friend is a biological female who went through female puberty, is not going through a medicalised transition. My friend does not use male pronouns. My friend will be treated unequally; and you think that is a good thing.

Your friend is then a woman. She might not think of herself as one, but as far as cycling categorisation it doesn't matter if she thinks she is a banana or a walrus. They can race in the female category or if they find that offensive they can join the open category instead.

You've just killed feminism.

You just said your friend isn't a woman therefore feminism doesn't apply to them. You can't have woman's rights if you don't think you are a woman. They will need to appeal to the non-binaryism movement if such exists. Although given that there is a category for non-binary people, I don't see the issue?

Small detail - the text quoted on here is not on the website link in the format given. The link plainly states that anyone who is transgender competes in the open category along with anyone who does not want to be categorised as male of female. That seems perfectly fair to me.

 

[icowden]

Not all binary people use they/them in any case...

Well if she is non-binary but uses she then why is she so upset at having to race in the woman's category and saying it's non feminist to exclude her?

 

[monkers]

There was idiocy aplenty, as she argued against her own ongoing argument, just in order to support bigotry.

 

[monkers]

Your friend is then a woman. She might not think of herself as one, but as far as cycling categorisation it doesn't matter if she thinks she is a banana or a walrus. They can race in the female category or if they find that offensive they can join the open category instead.

My friend is biologically female. She does not use the gender terms of man or woman. New CTT rules state that she must race in the open category, because she does not identify herself with the word 'woman', but does identify herself as female, even though the category is termed female. Go figure.

 

[monkers]

You just said your friend isn't a woman therefore feminism doesn't apply to them. You can't have woman's rights if you don't think you are a woman. They will need to appeal to the non-binaryism movement if such exists. Although given that there is a category for non-binary people, I don't see the issue?

Feminism relates to equality between the sexes. My friend is a feminist because my friend believes in equality between the sexes. The new rules discriminate against my friend on the basis of not wishing to use the word 'woman'.

 

[AndyRM]

Well if she is non-binary but uses she then why is she so upset at having to race in the woman's category and saying it's non feminist to exclude her?

That's not a question I can answer.

 

[monkers]

Although given that there is a category for non-binary people, I don't see the issue?

Remember this is just for club level amateur sport rather than elite sport. The new rules say that my friend must be treated the same as people undergoing medical transition. She is not. So why is that the rule?

 

[icowden]

My friend is biologically female. She does not use the gender terms of man or woman. New CTT rules state that she must race in the open category, because she does not identify herself with the word 'woman', but does identify herself as female, even though the category is termed female. Go figure.

That's not what it says. It says that if she insists on asserting that she is not a woman than she cannot race in the woman's category. If she can get over the idea of competing with women because she will be a woman in the woman's category then she can. They have made two possible places for her to race, it is entirely her choice which she feels comfortable with.

 

[icowden]

Remember this is just for club level amateur sport rather than elite sport. The new rules say that my friend must be treated the same as people undergoing medical transition. She is not. So why is that the rule?

It isn't.