Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

Lol. You started this thread with a report that you seemed to think was some sort of way forward. In reality it was just self ID under another name. (Page 37 if I recall talked about being able to opt in to different gender categories as you wished).

I find your unwillingness to address the specifics, and general disinterest in the details of the issues, as tiresome as you find my banging on about such things.

Your 'it's complicated/nuanced/no easy answers/it depends' woolliness doesn't address anything. Whether it's sports, prisons, changing rooms, you just avoid giving an opinion on the specifics.

We're a million posts in and still nobody knows what you actually think on specific issues.

I can't be bothered with debating the McKinnon essay. It's based on deliberate misunderstanding of the gender critical position and unfathomably seems to think gender critical feminists think women are oppressed by our bodies, rather than because of our bodies. Critiqued here by Victoria Smith:

https://thecritic.co.uk/against-squint-a-bit-feminism/

 

[monkers]

Lol. You started this thread with a report that you seemed to think was some sort of way forward. In reality it was just self ID under another name. (Page 37 if I recall talked about being able to opt in to different gender categories as you wished).

I find your unwillingness to address the specifics, and general disinterest in the details of the issues, as tiresome as you find my banging on about such things.

Your 'it's complicated/nuanced/no easy answers/it depends' woolliness doesn't address anything. Whether it's sports, prisons, changing rooms, you just avoid giving an opinion on the specifics.

We're a million posts in and still nobody knows what you actually think on specific issues.

I can't be bothered with debating the McKinnon essay. It's based on deliberate misunderstanding of the gender critical position and unfathomably seems to think gender critical feminists think women are oppressed by our bodies, rather than because of our bodies. Critiqued here by Victoria Smith:

https://thecritic.co.uk/against-squint-a-bit-feminism/

 

[AuroraSaab]

'Women wanting a small number of spaces and services where, in limited circumstances, they can be away from men is the same as racial segregation'.

Why am I not surprised to find you appropriating black people's struggles and suggesting that the demand of some men to undress in the women's changing room is exactly the same as what they went through for centuries. Huge racist.

 

[monkers]

'Women wanting a small number of spaces and services where, in limited circumstances, they can be away from men is the same as racial segregation'.

Why am I not surprised to find you appropriating black people's struggles and suggesting that the demand of some men to undress in the women's changing room is exactly the same as what they went through for centuries. Huge racist.

Foghorning again Aurora.

The aggrieved entitlement syndrome is similar in each case. It describes the sense of entitlement you have, such that you feel the need to urgently campaign against a minority group on a set of false claims. 'There's not enough room in the (your) women class for more people'. Well there is.

 

[Unkraut]

Well, my son-in-law said to me recently 'transgenderism is a cause for a generation that doesn't have any real problems'.

I think there is a lot of truth in that unless you regard the intellectual confusion of the modern secular mind a problem in its own right.

 

[AuroraSaab]

This is a thread about gender so you obviously felt it was appropriate. Most people would pause for a minute before posting a comparison between racist segregation and men seeking to be in women's spaces.

Nothing more entitled than the oppressor class (males) thinking they are entitled to be in the spaces and services of the oppressed class (females). And then turn round and present themselves as more oppressed and marginalised lol.

The women's class is no longer a separate class if there are blokes in it. That men seek to colonise it is male entitlement on stilts.

 

[winjim]

I don't know my own mind because I'm just a poor wee thing helplessly socialised to be kind to the poor menz

View: https://youtu.be/JvW-ZGNjBYc

 

[monkers]

This is a thread about gender so you obviously felt it was appropriate. Most people would pause for a minute before posting a comparison between racist segregation and men seeking to be in women's spaces.

Nothing more entitled than the oppressor class (males) thinking they are entitled to be in the spaces and services of the oppressed class (females). And then turn round and present themselves as more oppressed and marginalised lol.

The women's class is no longer a separate class if there are blokes in it. That men seek to colonise it is male entitlement on stilts.

Psychologically it comes from the same place - a false perception that as other people acquire rights, that you are losing yours. What you are doing is not unlike the behaviour of those who shout 'white lives matter' or 'all lives matter'. It's a pleading for preserved rights for your own people.

Human rights can not be dissected, diced, sliced, or cherry-picked from. You support human rights or you don't.

This attempt to change the EqA for sex to mean biological sex only is an attempt to remove human rights from the 7 000 or so trans people in the UK who have a GRC. The ramifications of this rights vandalism is far-reaching. Those trans women who married men (and trans men who married women) after having their gender recognised in law will have to have their marriages annulled, and then remarry in same sex marriage. No doubt you will think that as a no cost issue as it doesn't affect your rights.

You'd rather shout 'huge racist' at me than recognise your own phobia for what it is. Can't say I'm surprised.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Human rights can not be dissected, diced, sliced, or cherry-picked from. You support human rights or you don't.

It's not a human right for males to be in women's prisons, sports, or changing rooms. Their demand to be there doesn't override women's need for safety, privacy, and dignity and the right to fairness in sports. There are times when rights do clash. It's unfortunate that rather than discussion transactivists demanded capitulation.

 

[monkers]

It's not a human right for males to be in women's prisons, sports, or changing rooms. Their demand to be there doesn't override women's need for safety, privacy, and dignity and the right to fairness in sports. There are times when rights do clash. It's unfortunate that rather than discussion transactivists demanded capitulation.

We agree (the bolded bit), but the solution is not to argue to remove the rights of the smaller group just because you happen by accident to be in the larger group.

Trans women with a GRC are not men, they are women - parliament decided it (not me) in 2003, some twenty years ago.

It's no good blaming activism as the cause of problems. How far would women have advanced rights without activism? Was activism always peaceful?

What trans activism is pursuing is the realisation of the promises that parliament / government have made, and inevitably reneged on.

 

[mudsticks]

Not sure that I've used the expression 'happy about hatred'. A search didn't find it, perhaps you'll oblige me with a quote of me making that particular accusation.

It was in the very quote I was responding to 🙄
>> <<

Arrogant? Probably.

You see you've exaggerated your case, which doesn't play well does it?

You've jumped in to defend Aurora, while other people, including other women here, seem to have come to a similar conclusion.

I've been exposing the lies and bigotry of one woman; yes just one.

In the early stages of conversation I was polite, however I've been worn down by ongoing lies and bigotry from one poster, and I've expressed my weariness with it.

We are talking about a woman who has spent so many hours constructing an argument that trans women are dangerous predators. This is false, and it is dangerous because the frequency and level of harm experienced by trans people has escalated. And yes I'm angry because whenever a news story regarding this is related to Aurora she diminishes the horror of it.

When I mentioned the recent experiences of my niece, how did Aurora reply? It was carefree. Instead of care, she launched into attack mode banging on about a minor incident or other that had occurred in Canada.

>>She seems happy about the hate that this campaign is causing and the effects.<< The bigotry is awful and it is unjustifiable.

Now it is not just trans women at risk of harm, it is other women. Each day I see reports of women attacked due to some perception of them being trans. This is getting out of control.

BTW, 'ironic' is the word being used in reports of women being attacked due to trans perception. Here's an example ...

I've not 'jumped in to defend' anyone or their position, I was pointing out the double standards of engagement of this supposed 'debate' .

I've stated my own position clearly enough.

But I guess people can read all that for themselves.

 

[icowden]

View attachment 4053

But isn't the chap on the floor your non-binary friend?

 

[icowden]

Ok.
Only you could find half of your own name insulting, icow.
Better?

You have no idea why I find that insulting and I am not prepared to give you a detailed breakdown. The point is that you have been told and like a small child excited about finding their own shoot on the end of their finger you are delightedly smearing it up the walls deliberately because you know that I don't like it.

This just illustrates the small minded petty moron that you are. Instead of insulting and belittling people why not actually debate people? Oh yes, it's because you are such a know it all genius with a brain the size of a planet that other people's points of view, research, etc don't matter. Only the great @multitool can possibly be right. Anyone else gets insulted and belittled, especially when you make a mistake and can't posit a counter argument/

Try listening and engaging and you *might* actually learn something.

Oh - and if you want to speak to me use my handle correctly or fark off and stick your finger back up your anus for another probe.

 

[monkers]

other people being seemingly 'happy about hatred'.

It was in the very quote I was responding to 🙄

Actually it wasn't which is why I didn't recognise it and search didn't find it. Same tricks being employed here as Aurora. At least if you are going to quote me, quote me using the same words please.

 

[mudsticks]

Actually it wasn't which is why I didn't recognise it and search didn't find it. Same tricks being employed here as Aurora. At least if you are going to quote me, quote me using the same words please.

I changed nothing at all about your quote except to put these things in.. to show where you'd said it.

>> <<

And that's a 'trick' is it.??

Wowsers.. 🙄