Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

What a load of opinionated tripe. Something....something... I know the law..the EHRC don't...But carry on calling me arrogant and pompous if you like, it changes nothing, you remain just an opinionated windbag.

Lol. Oh look, the 'be kind' people are here again.

Did you think I wouldn't notice you shifting the goalposts? The issue of carers is a separate one to single sex spaces - going for a pee on your own behind a door, or getting changed out of your swimming things in a changing room is not intimate care.

Same thing - privacy, dignity, safety involved. All covered by the Equality Act exemptions.

A man with a GRC would surely call himself a man. A man without a GRC is legally male. What's the difference? You still asking? It's the law.

Would he though? I don't think Eddie/Suzy Izzard has a GRC. It's not possible to check that every single male has a GRC. They are still biological men regardless. Which is why the Equality Act allows them to be excluded.

Just to be clear. Are you of the view that unless you have a GRC you are male and should be referred to as male? Because previously you have been very much 'gender is innate' and 'people are who they say they are'.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Stonewall were invited to talk to the Select Committee, they offered an opinion which has never been adopted into law, but you talk about Stonewall Law and them redefining sex.

If these exemptions don't exist - which is what you claim - then there would be no need for Stonewall to recommend getting rid of them. You'd think their lawyers would have said 'No need for that bit, because those don't exist'. But they didn't.

We've gone over this a gazillion times.

 

[monkers]

Lol. Oh look, the 'be kind' people are here again.

Same thing - privacy, dignity, safety involved. All covered by the Equality Act exemptions.

Would he though? I don't think Eddie/Suzy Izzard has a GRC. It's not possible to check that every single male has a GRC. They are still biological men regardless. Which is why the Equality Act allows them to be excluded.

Just to be clear. Are you of the view that unless you have a GRC you are male and should be referred to as male? Because previously you have been very much 'gender is innate'and 'people are who they say they are'.

No.

I don't have a GRC and I'm not therefore male - nor should I be referred to as male unless I request it, which I don't.

I've said that gender identity is considered innate by the WHO since gender dysphoria has been reclassified. I accept the view having lived with a child / young person who has experienced it.

I've said that I treat people as being who they say they are. I don't even feel it's being kind, it's just that it costs me nothing.

 

[monkers]

f these exemptions don't exist - which is what you claim - then there would be no need for Stonewall to recommend getting rid of them. You'd think their lawyers would have said 'No need for that bit, because those don't exist'. But they didn't.

Never once I have said that exemptions don't exist. Why do you need to lie every time you post?

Do you do this just to piss people off? Otherwise there is something seriously wrong with your brain.

 

[icowden]

I've said that gender identity is considered innate by the WHO since gender dysphoria has been reclassified. I accept the view having lived with a child / young person who has experienced it.

I don't think the WHO have said any such thing. Do you have any evidence to back up that assertion?

Dr Lale Say, a reproductive health expert at the World Health Organization, said: "It was taken out from mental health disorders because we had a better understanding that this was not actually a mental health condition, and leaving it there was causing stigma.
"So in order to reduce the stigma, while also ensuring access to necessary health interventions, this was placed in a different chapter."

Gender incongruence is now considered a sexual health disorder instead of a mental health disorder. That's all.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Gender incongruence is now considered a sexual health disorder instead of a mental health disorder. That's all.

Where, in the WHO information, is gender incongruence described as a sexual health disorder?

No issue with it being a sexual health matter; it's the word disorder I'm questioning.

 

[multitool]

Where, in the WHO information, is gender incongruence described as a sexual health disorder?

No issue with it being a sexual health matter; it's the word disorder I'm questioning.

It doesn't. Icow has made it up.

It is not a disorder it is a "condition".

 

[icowden]

Where, in the WHO information, is gender incongruence described as a sexual health disorder?

Sorry - still thinking in ICD10 terms. In ICD11 (where the change has been made), it is not Conditions related to sexual health. So trans people have a diagnosed sexual health condition.

I'm not sure how much better that sounds than a diagnosed mental health disorder...

 

[icowden]

It doesn't. Icow has made it up.

fark off cvnt.

It is not a disorder it is a "condition".

Correct. See above.

 

[multitool]

fark off cvnt.

Thats not very nice, icow

Correct. See above.

I did...

Gender incongruence is now considered a sexual health disorder instead of a mental health disorder. That's all.

You were talking crap again

 

[monkers]

I don't think the WHO have said any such thing. Do you have any evidence to back up that assertion?

Gender incongruence is now considered a sexual health disorder instead of a mental health disorder. That's all.

The WHO defines gender identity as ...

Gender identity refers to a person’s deeply felt, internal and individual experience of gender, which may or may not correspond to the person’s physiology or designated sex at birth.

I don't think you'll find they use the term 'sexual health disorder'. What they actually say is this ...

The World Health Organization (WHO) will remove "gender identity disorder" from its global manual of diagnoses — a major win for transgender rights. The change was announced last summer, but a resolution to amend the health guidelines was officially approved.

The United Nations' health agency released a revised version of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) that reclassifies "gender identity disorder" as "gender incongruence," which is now featured under the sexual health chapter rather than the mental disorders chapter.

Gender incongruence is better known as gender dysphoria, the feeling of distress when an individual's gender identity is at odds with the gender assigned at birth. An evolving scientific understanding of gender and work by transgender advocates have contributed to the reclassification.

 

[monkers]

I'm not sure how much better that sounds than a diagnosed mental health disorder...

They have reclassified it into the same chapter ... that doesn't conflate the two issues as being as one.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I'm not sure how much better that sounds than a diagnosed mental health disorder...

And those few bolded word tell us everything about your 'thinking' on this subject.

 

[icowden]

Thats not very nice, icow

That's OK. You are a reductive bully cvunt who delights in taking the piss out of people. You have no respect for anyone which devalues any contribution you make. You are an onanistic bully. Now fvck off, keep fvcking off and come back when you can talk to people with respect.,

You were talking crap again

No. I used one word based on ICD10 not ICD11.

Newsflash - almost no NHS sites are using ICD11 yet. National collections are not using ICD11. Most NHS software does not use ICD11.
So at the moment the medical record of a transgender person will show that they have a mental health disorder whether they like it or not.

Oh - and sometimes the nomenclature gets worded differently. Here is the coding expressing from SNOMED CT (the WHO medical coding system) with the ICD10 mappings:-

Gender dysphoria (disorder)​

93461009​

ICD10​

Map Entries		Rule	Advice	Relation
1/1/1	F66.2 Sexual relationship disorder	ALTERNATIVE
1/1/2	F66.1 Egodystonic sexual orientation	ALTERNATIVE
1/1/3	F66.0 Sexual maturation disorder	ALTERNATIVE
1/1/4	F66.8 Other psychosexual development disorders	ALTERNATIVE
1/1/5	F66.9 Psychosexual development disorder, unspecified	TRUE

Notice which codes from ICD10 are mapped?

 

[icowden]

And those few bolded word tell us everything about your 'thinking' on this subject.

Yes. My thinking is that I am not sure how much better it sounds to have a diagnosed sexual condition over a diagnosed mental health condition. Both of these things would seem to contradict the notion that somehow transgender is innate.