Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

I'm saying that there is a real possibility that Stephen Wood does not have the gender identity that he claims.

Why do you continue to misgender them? You say there's no diagnosis for 'trans' so how can you possibly know that they aren't a 'woman gender' person?

Looks like you get to decide who is genuinely trans but no-one else can. And if that's the case then you're really just advocating for any man to be in any women's spaces because you're admitting that there's no way to tell the difference. And I don't think we should just take men at their word.

I make a different representation for trans women, especially those with a GRC.

How can you say S. Wood is not a transwoman? They fulfil the only criteria you have ever demanded, which is to say 'I am a woman'.

 

[monkers]

Why do you continue to misgender them? You say there's no diagnosis for 'trans' so how can you possibly know that they aren't a 'woman gender' person?

Looks like you get to decide who is genuinely trans but no-one else can. And if that's the case then you're really just advocating for any man to be in any women's spaces because you're admitting that there's no way to tell the difference. And I don't think we should just take men at their word.



How can you say S. Wood is not a transwoman? They fulfil the only criteria you have ever demanded, which is to say 'I am a woman'.

There's no diagnosis for trans other than people saying they are gender incongruent over a period of time. It just doesn't need to be a clinician seeing the same person for years on end. The system is broken because the legal burdens of the GRA and the lack of political will to provide funds for a decent level of service are a recipe for chaos. The two all party select committees that investigated said so.

From what we know, Stephen Wood had no previous history either formally or informally of declaring himself trans. Women prisoners declared Wood as not trans but fake. We can only either suppose Wood feared for his own safety in a men's prison, or thought he could get away with access to women, or maybe both. Thankfully Wood is now appropriately placed.

If you believe Stephen Wood actually should be in a women's prison, then you carry on - get on the streets and campaign for him.

What the case does show is that there will always be highly manipulative people trying to gain a system. The trick is to recognise that for just what it is. There's no just cause in portraying all trans people as all Karen Whites - they very much are not.

Yes it's a problem when these cases arise, but it's a problem for women, be they cis or be they trans.

 

[AndyRM]

I worked in Community Children's Services for 12 years, so am reasonably familiar with the process.

So, that's a no then.

 

[AuroraSaab]

@AuroraSaab have you read the decision of the High Court (Chamberlain J) in the case about wait times for GID clinics?
It gives a reasonable and factual history of a few youngsters who present as gender incongruent.
Worth looking it up.

The GIDS wait times are very long. As you'd expect when demand has risen so quickly in a short time; which is a red flag in itself, surely. I think there's a very long wait for NHS mental health care in general, both for adults and children. All made worse by the pandemic.

Don't the descriptions of the kids make you sad though? Don't they concern you? Little boys that liked playing with girls toys and liked dresses and were bullied for it, ending up thinking they were girls. This is just regressive sexism and stereotypes. It doesn't say if these children were same sex attracted or not. A disproportionate number of those at the Tavistock are.

Doesn't it worry you that we are 'transing' gay and non conforming kids? That if kept off puberty blockers and cross sex hormones these children would adjust to their body dysphoria and be happy gay or straight adults? Rather than life long medical patients, or worse having undergone irreversible surgeries.

 

[AuroraSaab]

If you believe Stephen Wood actually should be in a women's prison, then you carry on - get on the streets and campaign for him.

Lol. I don't. The reason I don't think they should be in a women's prison is because they are male, not because they are faking being transgender. Whereas if you were being consistent you would say they are a woman. It suits you better to say they are faking.

What the case does show is that there will always be highly manipulative people trying to gain a system. The trick is to recognise that for just what it is.

Lol. So there are men who will pretend to be women for their own ends? And we can't tell who these men are? But some are faking. We just don't know which ones. Until they commit a sex offence, then we know.

Any tips for 'recognising it for what it is' when said male body is in the women's showers at the leisure centre rather than in the dock for a sex offence?

Or should the little girls just look away and not go swimming again, as you previously recommended?

 

[icowden]

So, that's a no then.

It used to be the process that the child was referred to CAMHS where they were seen by a Consultant Psychologist specialising in Autism. This could and did take a very long time.

I think these days that we have Consultant Paediatricians specialising in this area in order to reduce the burden on mental health services. Sometimes diagnosis is easy, sometimes difficult depending on how a child presents and whether they are high or low functioning, have other developmental delays etc.

 

[monkers]

Whereas if you were being consistent you would say they are a woman. It suits you better to say they are faking.

fark me, you really are dense aren't you.

 

[icowden]

fark me, you really are dense aren't you.

Or are you just being unclear and shifting position constantly?

 

[monkers]

Any tips for 'recognising it for what it is' when said male body is in the women's showers at the leisure centre rather than in the dock for a sex offence?

You've had this spelt out to you haven't you. It's certain behaviours that are actionable in law, not certain appearances. But if you don't like the law, then you need to direct your objections to the lawmakers - I'll not do it for you.

It is neither a criminal offence to be naked, or to be using shower, unless of course there is an accompanying offence.

 

[monkers]

Or are you just being unclear and shifting position constantly?

There's two people on here unable to spot contextual clues in language; you are one of them. Ordinarily that's not something I have any negative emotion about. However you are now one half of a tag team unable to defend their bigotry with a cogent argument.

 

[icowden]

There's two people on here unable to spot contextual clues in language; you are one of them. Ordinarily that's not something I have any negative emotion about. However you are now one half of a tag team unable to defend their bigotry with a cogent argument.

It's hard to defend something you don't have.

I'm very much live and let live, but we need to ensure balance and that the rights of women are not eroded. We also need to ensure that we are not carrying out potentially harmful medical interventions on children who are not old enough to be certain of what they are asking for.

 

[multitool]

Saw a recent survey of attitudes of trans people who had undergone surgery. Very few regretted, and even fewer detransitioned.

The whole narrative from the 'phobe side is based of bullshìt that they bandy around each other. The parallel with the antivaxxers would be those that bang on about increasing rates of vaccine damage. They cite (spurious) anecdote.

 

[AuroraSaab]

So in short, there's nothing helpful there either in defining 'what a woman is'. Every attempt to define what a woman is, even by women, fails. So let's just let us women say, 'I am a woman'. Job done.

This is you.

It is utter hypocrisy for you to now say that when Karen White or Stephen Wood says 'I am a woman' you claim they are faking.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Saw a recent survey of attitudes of trans people who had undergone surgery. Very few regretted, and even fewer detransitioned.

Any chance of a link? Short term follow up (5 years and under) suggests most remain satisfied at that point. Long term seems to suggest higher suicide rates and higher overall mortality. Plus there is not much quality data on how many detransition. The Tavistock did zero follow up on any patients in 20 years.

 

[multitool]

Any chance of a link? Short term follow up (5 years and under) suggests most remain satisfied at that point. Long term seems to suggest higher suicide rates and higher overall mortality. Plus there is not much quality data on how many detransition. The Tavistock did zero follow up on any patients in 20 years.

I'd have to go looking (which I will) but not now.

As for suicides, well...a hostile environment probably doesn't help much does it. You may want to pause and consider if you are contributing to it.