Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

The other 16 also rely on Scottish government funding. They aren't free to speak freely.

Do you think a girl or woman who has been raped should be able to reject counselling from a trans identifying male counsellor and be able to insist on speaking to a woman?

 

[multitool]

The other 16 also rely on Scottish government funding. They aren't free to speak freely.

iTs aBoUt cOnTrOl

 

[Unkraut]

@mudsticks On the climate thread somewhere you seemed sceptical of the existence of cancel culture. I was curious, in light of Greta Thunberg, to see whether she followed the science when it came to the climate, but ditched it when it came to transgenderism. In all likelihood she does. My quick search turned up this article:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opini...historic-choice-to-make-susan-dalgety-3956744

After screening of Adult Human Female is cancelled amid protests ...​

A couple of days ago YT suggested footage of this, described by the following article:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/mcgill-backlash-anti-trans-talk-1.670825

Protesters storm McGill University talk on sex vs. gender, shutting it down​

There was an interview with the speaker Robert Wintermute, a lecturer at King's College London of which I saw a small part. He is not even anti-transgender - and had given his talk in London and two universities in Spain. In Canada, however, he was shut down. The totalitarian mindset behind such protests is much more in evidence in Canada.

I've watched footage of Germaine Greer after being de-platformed for not believing 'transwomen' are women. When asked if people might be offended by her stance as though this was decisive she replied 'I don't care'! The unforgiveable sin is now to offend!

Also saw a few minutes of some meeting in the States to discuss the same issues, and the black women in charge couldn't continue the meeting because a load of braying donkeys kept chanting 'transwomen are women' and wouldn't shut up even having made their point. So much for intersectionality!

You get the point. Isn't this a real threat to free speech? They aren't free to speak freely. Resorting to allegations of 'hate speech', when the motivation of the person concerned isn't knowable, in order to shut down debate. Claiming 'harm' will be done to people if they are subject to ideas they may happen to disagree with.

There appears to be indifference to possible actual harm that could be done to women if transwomen are given free access to otherwise women only spaces.

Now I don't believe there is any such thing as transitioning!! I think it is unloving.

The whole concept is based on lies, and the reason for the desire to stifle analysis and discussion is because this would become only too apparent. If something is true, it will withstand scrutiny. If something is in the dark world of lies then shining light on it will show it for what it is. If you do accept transitioning, shouldn't discussion of this and its affect on women be subject to the same freedoms traditionally allowed for debating controversial ideas?

 

[icowden]

Absolute excoriation of Terfy claims that the Gender Recognition Bill threatens women's spaces. AS take note.
Still. It's only Rape Crisis. What would they know.

As @AuroraSaab points out. They have vested interests.

The key problem with the bill is that it allows you to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate if you want one. You don't need a medical diagnosis, surgery or hormones. If you want one you can have one.

The implication of that is that once you have one you have to be treated under the equality act as your new gender. So for example, a rapist who decides that they really don't like the prison they are banged up in can obtain a GRC and demand to move to a women's prison. They don't have to shave their beard, wear a dress, take hormones or have surgery but legally they would be a woman. The same rules would apply to sport, women's groups, women's refuges etc.

Yet again, none of this is about trying to prevent those few people with gender dysmorphia from living their lives, enabling them as much as possible. It's about trying to prevent the very obvious abuse of the system getting much, much worse.

 

[multitool]

As @AuroraSaab points out. They have vested interests.

But what of the 16 other organisations, like Amnesty, who countersigned the Rape Crisis statement? Are they compromised by Scottish govt money too? Did you not bother to read Mr Celine's post?

The more you people speak, the more your narrative echoes the online antivax community.

fOlLoW tHe mONeY

The implication of that is that once you have one you have to be treated under the equality act as your new gender. So for example, a rapist who decides that they really don't like the prison they are banged up in can obtain a GRC and demand to move to a women's prison. They don't have to shave their beard, wear a dress, take hormones or have surgery but legally they would be a woman. The same rules would apply to sport, women's groups, women's refuges etc.

Keep up at the back. We've done this to death already. Scottish govt say this is not true and that provisions of EA remain.

 

[newfhouse]

You get the point. Isn't this a real threat to free speech? They aren't free to speak freely. Resorting to allegations of 'hate speech', when the motivation of the person concerned isn't knowable, in order to shut down debate. Claiming 'harm' will be done to people if they are subject to ideas they may happen to disagree with.

You’re in Germany. Should holocaust deniers be free to tell their lies? If so, should they be guaranteed a platform?

How about anti-vaccine loonies that cause measurable harm? Should they have an automatic right to publicity?

Free speech will always have limits - the debate is about where, not if, we place the restrictions.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

You’re in Germany. Should holocaust deniers be free to tell their lies? If so, should they be guaranteed a platform?

How about anti-vaccine loonies that cause measurable harm? Should they have an automatic right to publicity?

Free speech will always have limits - the debate is about where, not if, we place the restrictions.

I always assume those who want to limit free speech are the enemies of democracy.
We might agree there are exceptions - holocaust denial being one.

'Anti-vaccine loonies'? - where are you going to draw the line between the 'loonies' and those with legitimate questions?

 

[matticus]

You’re in Germany. Should holocaust deniers be free to tell their lies? If so, should they be guaranteed a platform?

How about anti-vaccine loonies that cause measurable harm? Should they have an automatic right to publicity?

Free speech will always have limits - the debate is about where, not if, we place the restrictions.

Are you:
a) showing how smart you are in realising that "free speech" is a slippery concept, and Umkraut is dumber than you. Or
b) saying that some beliefs around trans issues are as dangerous as holocaust denial?

 

[winjim]

This is an unmoderated chat forum. Germaine Greer is perfectly welcome to come on here and talk whatever bollocks she wants. If she were to do the same on the main forum, she might get told off by the mods.

 

[newfhouse]

We might agree there are exceptions

Yes.

where are you going to draw the line

I don’t know.

realising that "free speech" is a slippery concept

Yes.

saying that some beliefs around trans issues are as dangerous as holocaust denial

No.

 

[AuroraSaab]

By unable to speak freely I meant that there is institutional capture around this topic and that individuals are unable to express dissent because they will lose their jobs or find themselves publicly vilified. I didn't mean that there is no free speech on the issue. There clearly is, but it comes at a cost.

This is an unmoderated chat forum. Germaine Greer is perfectly welcome to come on here and talk whatever bollocks she wants. If she were to do the same on the main forum, she might get told off by the mods.

Does your sarcasm mean me, winjim? Are you seriously saying that I have said things that would get the thread deleted or myself banned on the main forum? This is just another tactic to shut down debate - moaning that concerns that many people have are extreme or indefensible in order to deflect from the arguments.

 

[matticus]

This is an unmoderated chat forum. Germaine Greer is perfectly welcome to come on here and talk whatever bollocks she wants.

I call bollocks; it's quite clear she wouldn't be welcome at all!

 

[newfhouse]

Does your sarcasm mean me, winjim?

Are you Germaine Greer?

 

[AuroraSaab]

But what of the 16 other organisations, like Amnesty, who countersigned the Rape Crisis statement? Are they compromised by Scottish govt money too?

Keep up at the back. We've done this to death already. Scottish govt say this is not true and that provisions of EA remain.

Amnesty have been all in on gender ideology for a while now. But as I told you before, they know that girls need separate facilities to be safe and campaign vociferously for them in the developing world. Separate toilets for girls is number 2 on their list of steps to end VAWG:





How can it not affect the Equality Act provisions? A Scottish GRC changes your sex in law. On what grounds would a leisure centre refuse admission to female communal changing rooms for someone whose sex was legally deemed female?

Trans groups and Stonewall continually say that transwomen without a GRC can already use single sex services but this is not the case legally, even if it happens.

To be able change your sex, from 16, with next to no criteria, is reckless.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Are you Germaine Greer?

I've deleted this post because GG was indeed mentioned late last night and I missed the comment.