Gender again. Sorry!

[Deleted member 159]

The Women's Institute does not agree with you. Does that surprise you?

Well they cant be campaigning for women's issues, now they've accepted trans. This insidious creep will come back to haunt them

 

[Deleted member 159]

Okaaay.

So what do the words 'girl' and 'boy' mean?

This post comes with a warning; it's a trap.

Easy- young male, young female

 

[monkers]

Above all else we need to move cautiously and do more research. There was a post a few million posts back about whether or not post-surgical trans people are more likely to commit suicide. There is a very good research paper which backs up this idea. But... The paper is from 2011. So there is then the question of whether the findings are only representative of the world in 2011 and whether with trans being more accepted and more public, outcomes would be different for a 2023 study. Until that is carried outwe have no realy way of measuring. Similarly I would hope that anyone being offered surgical or hormonal intervention would be talked through it very very carefully and the risks very clearly outlined.

I can maybe help you with that ... study in the USA 2021 ...

Conclusions
In this article, we present the largest study to our knowledge to date on associations between gender-affirming surgeries and mental health outcomes. Our results demonstrate that undergoing gender-affirming surgery is associated with improved past-month severe psychological distress, past-year smoking, and past-year suicidal ideation. Our findings offer empirical evidence to support provision of gender-affirming surgical care for TGD people who seek it. Furthermore, this study provides evidence to support policies that expand and protect access to gender-affirming surgical care for TGD communities.

From ...

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/fullarticle/2779429

 

[monkers]

Easy- young male, young female

Your trap avoidance skills are notably poor. In just three and half minutes you could become more enlightened. Ready?


View: https://youtu.be/MY8cUs2Cc1U

 

[mudsticks]

Then you don't believe in single sex spaces and services for women at all then. There are no special categories of men who are fundamentally different from other men.


I think you fundamentally don't understand how some women feel with males present in certain spaces. We have to wait until they are disruptive? Mudsticks event isn't an event that would be considered a vulnerable space, but you can't seriously be saying a rape crisis group for women should have to admit a transwoman and as long as they are not disruptive you don't see a problem.

You're right of course this isn't really a 'vulnerable' space, it's largely attended by very physically capable 'earthy' types very able to hold their own.

But still attendees prefer the atmosphere of women only, for the reasons (and others) I've outlined.
I was surprised when I first set it up, by how many women still wanted these spaces.

But multiply those reasons up by several magnitudes when were talking about truly vulnerable situations, and very vulnerable women - often both physically and psychologically fragile, such as in a rape crisis centre, and you have made an already unhappy cohort of women feel their needs are even less seen and heard, than they already are.

The empathy gap with this is (sadly unsurprisingly) vast.

It's very easy for people on hear to say "You must be more tolerant and understanding"

When they're basically not having to do any of that work themselves.

 

[mudsticks]

Surely, at your event, you define what constitutes disruptive behaviour. It could be as you describe, leaving you with a difficult situation, but as you say, it's unlikely. I expect that the event will go off satisfactorily and pre-event nerves will disappear once it's underway.

Thanks but I don't have any pre event nerves.

The likelyhood (slim) or otherwise of having a disruptive attendee is neither here nor there.

Whatever happens we will have to manage it.


What I was trying to get you to understand, and have some empathy for, was the reason why these safe spaces are needed / wanted / required in the first place.


I'd have thought you (given your usual empathetic approach) might have got that nuance.

But it seems no, it's airly dismissed with "Oh you'll be fine" and no real acknowledgement of the underlying issues that can bring up these problems in the first place.

 

[Ian H]

...This insidious creep will come back to haunt them

I'm intrigued. Who is this creep?

 

[monkers]

What I was trying to get you to understand, and have some empathy for, was the reason why these safe spaces are needed / wanted / required in the first place.

Actually I think you are being harsh on Ian.

Your event is not a safe space and you've said that the attendees are not vulnerable women. I think Ian's responses were appropriate.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Your trap avoidance skills are notably poor. In just three and half minutes you could become more enlightened. Ready?


View: https://youtu.be/MY8cUs2Cc1U

Yet the whole panel had no idea that the aristocratics were idiots, trying to be, oh so different.

Fundamentally, they knew a girl is female and boy is male.

Unless you're trans then they're called eggs

 

[Ian H]

Thanks but I don't have any pre event nerves.

The likelyhood (slim) or otherwise of having a disruptive attendee is neither here nor there.

Whatever happens we will have to manage it.


What I was trying to get you to understand, and have some empathy for, was the reason why these safe spaces are needed / wanted / required in the first place.


I'd have thought you (given your usual empathetic approach) might have got that nuance.

But it seems no, it's airly dismissed with "Oh you'll be fine" and no real acknowledgement of the underlying issues that can bring up these problems in the first place.

I always have pre-event nerves. I assumed your worrying was on those lines. I'm not unempathetic but I don't have the answers any more than you do. 'Oh you'll be fine' simply means I think that you are very capable of organising a good event.

 

[monkers]

Well they cant be campaigning for women's issues, now they've accepted trans. This insidious creep will come back to haunt them

Our campaigns tackle issues that matter to women in their communities. From equal pay to climate change, mental health and violence against women, over the past 100 years we have embraced a diverse set of challenges. The WI has brought about real change - and we are just getting started.

 

[monkers]

Yet the whole panel had no idea that the aristocratics were idiots, trying to be, oh so different.

Fundamentally, they knew a girl is female and boy is male.

Unless you're trans then they're called eggs

You've failed in your argument - unsurprising really as you've relied on cognitive bias to form it.

You tried a linguistic argument based on chronology and failed. Your earlier answer also failed as you identified boys as young females, and girls as young males.

 

[icowden]

Your trap avoidance skills are notably poor. In just three and half minutes you could become more enlightened. Ready?

To be fair, we have to measure those words by their meaning and usage now, not their meaning and usage several hundred years ago. What used to be is not what is. In further surprises, I rather dislike the "pink" for girls, "blue for boys" thing and loath those shirts with sexualised slogans on for children. Utterly odious.

 

[monkers]

To be fair, we have to measure those words by their meaning and usage now, not their meaning and usage several hundred years ago. What used to be is not what is. In further surprises, I rather dislike the "pink" for girls, "blue for boys" thing and loath those shirts with sexualised slogans on for children. Utterly odious.

Gently I say that I think you missed something along the way in the conversation.

 

[icowden]

Redefined by the Cambridge dictionary

A bit pointlessly though.
From Collins:-

Woman:

A woman is an adult female human being

Female

Someone who is female is a woman or a girl.

So neither definition specifies at all how we establish what a woman is. Only the way that we use the word.
It's the major failing of the "What is a woman" documentary as it sets out to answer a question which has no definitive answer. Hence consensus is impossible unless we are talking about the biologial chromosomal based definition of XX and XY which has a third category of intersex.