Gender again. Sorry!

[classic33]

Why does whether it resulted in a jail sentence affect the relevance of the ratio of convictions for cases that did? The stats are clear. Pretending that there might have been other crimes that didn't make it to court and should be taken into account is nonsense. There's no evidence that transwomen comit these unrecorded crimes at any different ratio than the ones they are recorded and convicted for.

This is just gymnastics to avoid recognising that transwomen are the same as other men.

Faced with an avalanche of evidence and stats about crime data, and sports science, and women's views, government reviews, and health orgs changing their minds, the absolute best you have is still your 1% difference on a single question on a single survey.

Arrests are higher for women than men though, as given earlier. Though you just dismissed the official figures as nonsense. So you can't really stand there saying the figures are wrong because you disagree with them, that'd be plain ignorance showing through.

There is no need to pretend, the official figure proves you wrong. It's yourself performing the gymnastics to try and prove a point. Anything outside of that, or contradicting your point of view is ignored, brushed aside as irrelevant, or just stated as being wrong.

 

[classic33]

No, I suggest we all use the toilets appropriate to our sex and then women won't have to worry about who is in the changing room with them.

Once again though, you seem to think women being horrible to other women means we should give men access to women's spaces. Just because some women had their genitals checked at the 1936 Olympics or whatever doesn't mean excluding men from women's sports is 'policing women's bodies'. Just because some non conforming women are very occasionally confronted in women's toilets doesn't mean men should have access.

Does your view on 'policing' access to toilets apply to women's rape support groups, women's domestic violence refuges, lesbian groups?

It's really not about toilets, as you well know.

Only at the 1936 Olympics?

 

[AuroraSaab]

It is at least plausible that natal males and females have differing propensities to gender/sex mismatch and that other factors come into play as life progresses.

Well cross dressing is an almost exclusively male paraphilia but I would imagine you wouldn't be prepared to consider that that might have been rebranded as having 'gender/sex mismatch' by some individuals. That would account for some of the increase in numbers and the imbalance of middle aged transwomen v middle aged transmen.

I think it's worth asking why so many girls from 12 to 20 feel hatred for their female bodies, and why the girls referred to the Tavistock have higher rates of autism, same sex attraction, incidence of sexual abuse etc. I don't think it has anything to do with being on a gender journey.

If 'other factors come into play' as you age and middle aged women are mostly accepting of their female bodies, why give children puberty blockers, and young adults hormones and surgery, for something that resolves on its own with age? These things are irreversible.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You still haven't understood. You don't have the data to talk about offending rates. You only have some crude data around incarceration.

Official prison stats and conviction rate stats aren't crude data. You still haven't explained why an argument based on unknowable data on things that might have happened is a better argument than one based on data about things that did and were recorded. Because you imagine it allows you to say 'We just don't know ....' . It doesn't.

I wasn't making any claims. I was pointing out that your claims were bullshît.

.....by citing a 1% difference on one question on one survey ....

It's still funny.

It wasn't as funny as when you thought two separate people were one transwoman, or when you backed up your argument with a cartoon from an 'adult baby diaper lover' transwoman who draws sexualised pictures of baby animals in nappies.

 

[Ian H]

Well cross dressing is an almost exclusively male paraphilia...

If you say so.

 

[multitool]

Official prison stats and conviction rate stats aren't crude data. You still haven't explained why an argument based on unknowable data on things that might have happened.

You still haven't understood. You are conflating offending rates with prison sentences.

....by citing a 1% difference on one question on one survey ....

It wasn't a 1% difference.

That you think it was shows really basic lack of understanding and you are a class example of somebody who doesn't understand statistics at even the most simplest of levels.

I'll say it again: if 51% are in favour of something, it does not follow that 49% are against it.

 

[Deleted member 159]

I remember hearing about this, trans tried to get lesbian date night event banned, for excluding trans.

It's exclusively for lesbian women

The new pub manager was caught in messaging the objectors saying he would ban the date night.

However the LGB alliance has won the day and the date night will continue to be held with only lesbians

Objectors tried to get the organiser sacked from her council job by complaining to the council.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/02/lesbian-speed-dating-event-ban-trans-women/

 

[AuroraSaab]

If you say so.
View attachment 4517

That's a photo of Frances Benjamin-Johnson, famous photographer. I'm not sure why you are conflating people who are on occasion gender non conforming, or who have fun with stereotypes, with the common male paraphilia of crossdressing.

She was a lesbian and her most famous picture is a self portrait wearing a dress, smoking, and holding a stein of beer.

Johnson took the wedding photographs for another admirably wild and non conforming woman, Alice Roosevelt, whose father Theodore said 'I can attend to the country or I can attend to Alice. I cannot do both'.

Oh look, another cross dressing woman according to you ...

 

[AuroraSaab]

Only at the 1936 Olympics?

No, but it's now done with a cheek swab at the start of your career. Funnily enough the women athletes who get abuse for not looking stereotypically feminine or looking too muscular or too athletic don't seem to mind their sex being checked. Fatima Whitbread had to endure that but is against including transwomen in the women's category. She doesn't seem too bothered about having her 'body policed' if it ensures fairness for women and girls.

Arrests are higher for women than men though, as given earlier. Though you just dismissed the official figures as nonsense. So you can't really stand there saying the figures are wrong because you disagree with them, that'd be plain ignorance showing through.

There's not a country in the world where women comit more violent and sexual crime than men. I've asked you before to find me one, but you haven't.

 

[Ian H]

That's a photo of Frances Benjamin-Johnson, famous photographer. I'm not sure why you are conflating people who are on occasion gender non conforming, or who have fun with stereotypes, with the common male paraphilia of crossdressing.

She was a lesbian and her most famous picture is a self portrait wearing a dress, smoking, and holding a stein of beer.

Johnson took the wedding photographs for another admirably wild and non conforming woman, Alice Roosevelt, whose father Theodore said 'I can attend to the country or I can attend to Alice. I cannot do both'.

Oh look, another cross dressing woman according to you ...

View attachment 4518

What on earth are you on about? And don't tell me what I think ("according to you"). It's thoroughly dishonest and highly irritating. If you think you're going to win any arguments with such an approach you are utterly mistaken.

There are many examples of female cross-dressing for various reasons.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Well cross dressing is an almost exclusively male paraphilia

There are many examples of female cross-dressing for various reasons.

Even assuming we rule out women cross-dressing for artistic/entertainment purposes, then these statements are not mutually exclusive.

 

[AuroraSaab]

There are many examples of female cross-dressing for various reasons.

The point is that with women it is very rarely sexual, whereas with men it very often is sexual. Historically, it's more often been associated with lesbians who have sought a stereotypical male appearance as a way of challenging gender norms and as an affront to the society that has rejected them.

What's dishonest of you is to conflate those men and women who seek to subvert gender norms, at no cost to anyone else, with men with a fetish and then pretend there is no difference - which is exactly what you do when you say men who say they are women should be in women's spaces. There's no way to tell the difference between the 2 groups, but that doesn't really bother you.

 

[Ian H]

The point is that with women it is very rarely sexual, whereas with men it very often is sexual. Historically, it's more often been associated with lesbians who have sought a stereotypical male appearance as a way of challenging gender norms and as an affront to the society that has rejected them.

What's dishonest of you is to conflate those men and women who seek to subvert gender norms, at no cost to anyone else, with men with a fetish and then pretend there is no difference - which is exactly what you do when you say men who say they are women should be in women's spaces. There's no way to tell the difference between the 2 groups, but that doesn't really bother you.

There you go again, ascribing an opinion to me, then calling me dishonest for (according to you) holding it.

 

[multitool]

Dishonest strawmen, from Aurora?

Never

 

[Deleted member 159]

View: https://youtu.be/abTMFKoytMo?si=pB873RPoSia8ZeAZ