Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

Let's see them

They've been posted and discussed at length in this thread 2 or 3 times already. Including in discussions you took part in. Here's data from HMP service based just on Census numbers:

Transwomen offend at the same rate as other men.

I can quite happily accept that sex offenders pretend to have body dysphoria in order to be recorded as transgender and thus get into women's prisons, or into the vulnerable wing in a male prison. It seems that you aren't prepared to accept this though, because that means accepting that men will be duplicitous in order to get into women's spaces and that undermines your insistence that transwomen are somehow special and different from other men. They aren't. You just think they should have a free pass that we don't give other men.

 

[Rusty Nails]

My granddaughter's name is Angharad but she has always been called Harri (she lives in London!!). That causes a few confused looks from passers-by when we call her and she comes running.

 

[classic33]

A quick non invasive test like using thermal imaging. That most likely would reveal presence of a dick

You're suggesting that a camera be used in an area set aside for changing in?

Try standing outside such an area with your phone ready to "scan" everyone entering the area. Wonder how long you'd last doing that.

 

[classic33]

Unless you are suggesting sex offenders shouldn't be permitted to use public toilets then the reality is they have to use a toilet. Are they more dangerous in the Women's than the Men's? Yes, obviously, because they are unlikely to assault an adult male, and most 'little boys' will be in there with their dad.


I've given you plenty of examples previously. You prefer to pretend they don't exist.

USA. Wyoming female sorority forced to accept a male this week - here's an easy reading report as I know you get people mixed up.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tm...-join-judge-rejects-sorority-sisters-lawsuit/

USA. Transwoman Zoey Marks won the women's category of the To Hell and Back singlespeed race in Tampa/St. Pete this weekend.


Canada. Male player Ash Davis registers as non binary/identifies as a woman and now plays in the Women's league. They played in a men's team the other week too apparently.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/toront...wcm/ea2b5945-0211-42f8-8ea7-d2bd6f1ee623/amp/
View attachment 4509

You say there are no examples but I could probably fill this thread just with cases from cycling.


Once self ID is introduced which gives men access to women's single sex spaces it will be very difficult to make it dependent on producing a certificate. True self ID is dependent only on saying 'I'm a woman' but even a system of allowing access for those with a GRC could be abused.

GRC or no GRC, they are still men and there are perfectly legitimate reasons to exclude them from women's spaces and sports at the few times it is appropriate to separate by sex.

Which toilets should the likes of Vicki Bevan be using. Or the teacher that gave extra "lessons" in her bedroom to pupils.

You present a very one sided view, that in your head is very simplistic, and you've said more than once that it's only men that are the problem. Then when questioned, you claim what you said has been taken the wrong way. Or that it's nonsense.

 

[classic33]

Do you imagine that most transwomen pass as female in real life, as opposed to heavily filtered still photographs? Babies can tell the difference between a male face and a female one.

If it was clear that males were not welcome in female spaces and it was legal to exclude them (which it is), it would be less of a problem. The confusion has been sown by transactivists. Presumably you don't object to trans people having their own spaces and services. I certainly don't. They seem to manage to identify who is allowed to use them.

Seems from research that the bias comes from being the primary caregiver.
"Infants’ earliest perceptual biases for faces seem largely driven by the sex of the infants’ primary caregiver, which is most often a female face. This female face bias is even found in some nonhuman primate species"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6680589/

 

[multitool]

They've been posted and discussed at length in this thread 2 or 3 times already. Including in discussions you took part in. Here's data from HMP service based just on Census numbers:

View attachment 4512
Transwomen offend at the same rate as other men.

I can quite happily accept that sex offenders pretend to have body dysphoria in order to be recorded as transgender and thus get into women's prisons, or into the vulnerable wing in a male prison. It seems that you aren't prepared to accept this though, because that means accepting that men will be duplicitous in order to get into women's spaces and that undermines your insistence that transwomen are somehow special and different from other men. They aren't. You just think they should have a free pass that we don't give other men.

OK, so...err...this is meaningless without an indication as to what the offences are.

For your argument to have any weight at all the offending rate with regards to sexual assaults against women has to match.

So where is it?

 

[Pale Rider]

My granddaughter's name is Angharad but she has always been called Harri (she lives in London!!)

Reminds me of when the actress Angharad Rees appeared on Morecambe and Wise.

Eric addressed her as 'Miss hand grenade'.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Tavistock- puberty blockers given to gay and autistic kids= medical malpractice

Trendy fashion for teenagers to be trans

Data collection abandoned post treatment
No follow up of those who have been subjected to this horrific experiment. Cover up accusations.


View: https://youtu.be/X2Ix_-1LkdY?si=n7dcnJKBN1b1WcFi

 

[AndyRM]

To put a more positive slant on things, I don't agree with blocking a child's emotional or physical maturation, but I feel that where things are is opening up opportunities for conversations about what it is to be yourself.

I knew, from a fairly early age, that I liked boys and girls, but was terrified to discuss this with anyone. It took me a long time to accept who I am, and my sexuality and identity has been able to develop over the years, not always healthily but that's by the by.

Overcoming binary norms is an important thing IMO, and obviously there are times when it really does go wrong, but I disagree that being trans, gender-fluid, non-binary or whatever is a trendy fashion. It's something that's been going around for years, very often in the mainstream, but for a variety of reasons has been catapulted into the limelight with the inevitable backlash from both sides.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Seems from research that the bias comes from being the primary caregiver.
"Infants’ earliest perceptual biases for faces seem largely driven by the sex of the infants’ primary caregiver, which is most often a female face. This female face bias is even found in some nonhuman primate species"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6680589/

Yes, babies see female faces more often and so quickly learn to distinguish male from female. Seems obvious enough. It's not innate.

Adult women are better at identifying sex than men are too, and the longer they get to look the better they do.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/ar...eta-analysis of own,only male faces are shown.

"Regardless of whether exposure time is short or long, females will recognize a larger proportion of same gender faces compared with the proportion of same gender faces recognized by males".

Which toilets should the likes of Vicki Bevan be using. Or the teacher that gave extra "lessons" in her bedroom to pupils.

The women's because statistically the Vikki Bevan's are 2% of sex offenders and men, whatever their name or how they identify, are 98%.

You present a very one sided view, that in your head is very simplistic, and you've said more than once that it's only men that are the problem. Then when questioned, you claim what you said has been taken the wrong way. Or that it's nonsense.

Yes, it's men that are the problem. No, I don't.

 

[AuroraSaab]

OK, so...err...this is meaningless without an indication as to what the offences are.

For your argument to have any weight at all the offending rate with regards to sexual assaults against women has to match.

So where is it?

Been posted several times.

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-01-06/98878

"As of our latest data collection on 31 March 2021, there were 146 transgender women (that is, prisoners who were legally male and identified as female) in all prisons across England and Wales.

On current offences, in the men’s estate, there were 87 transgender women with a conviction for at least one sexual offence".

And another 5 or less in the women's estate, plus any with GRC's, but we can leave those out just to make it more simple.

So (minimum) 87 out of 146 is 59, meaning 59% of transwomen in prison are convicted sex offenders.

In male prisoners, the rate is 18%.

https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...erly-october-to-december-2019-and-annual-2019

(This doesn't include any Scottish figures).

This has been discussed and posted several times now. You just don't accept that transwomen are no different to other men.

The onus is on you to show why these men - or indeed any particular group of men - should be treated differently from other men. Otherwise you are really just arguing for everything to be unisex.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Overcoming binary norms is an important thing IMO, and obviously there are times when it really does go wrong, but I disagree that being trans, gender-fluid, non-binary or whatever is a trendy fashion. It's something that's been going around for years, very often in the mainstream, but for a variety of reasons has been catapulted into the limelight with the inevitable backlash from both sides.

There's always been gender non conformity (for want of a better word) - we should encourage and celebrate it. Trouble is, it is now presented as an indication that you are the opposite sex. This is sexist, regressive, and homophobic.

And of course, you can overcome binary norms without impinging on women's spaces, rights, and language.

 

[theclaud]

There's always been gender non conformity (for want of a better word) - we should encourage and celebrate it

By interrogating butch, masc or androgynous women and people with DSDs when they go for a piss?

 

[AuroraSaab]

By telling 'butch, masc or androgynous' girls they are really boys? And telling gay and non conforming boys they are really girls?

There have always been men and women who don't conform to stereotypes of dress and appearance. It's only recently some people have decided this means these folk are the opposite sex and that drugs and surgery are required.

 

[multitool]

Been posted several times.

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-01-06/98878

"As of our latest data collection on 31 March 2021, there were 146 transgender women (that is, prisoners who were legally male and identified as female) in all prisons across England and Wales.

On current offences, in the men’s estate, there were 87 transgender women with a conviction for at least one sexual offence".

And another 5 or less in the women's estate, plus any with GRC's, but we can leave those out just to make it more simple.

So (minimum) 87 out of 146 is 59, meaning 59% of transwomen in prison are convicted sex offenders.

In male prisoners, the rate is 18%.

https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...erly-october-to-december-2019-and-annual-2019

(This doesn't include any Scottish figures).

This has been discussed and posted several times now. You just don't accept that transwomen are no different to other men.

The onus is on you to show why these men - or indeed any particular group of men - should be treated differently from other men. Otherwise you are really just arguing for everything to be unisex.

There's so much wrong with your cod analysis that it's hard to know where to start. Not surprising really, given that you think 49 is higher than 50.

Let's start with the obvious, you said that TW offend at same rate as cis men. But the data you put forward here is to do with conviction and imprisonment, not offending. You are discounting people who did not receive custodial sentences...and you aren't considering people who commit offences, but do not get convicted ie the majority of rapists.