Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-two-women-remanded-in-female-prison-scotland

The thing with this case is that 20 years ago noone would have even considered that he had a valid claim to be a woman. Everyone would have seen it for what it is - the case of a man with a fetish chancing his arm and trying to game the system. But thanks to transactivists telling us that people are who they say they are, this guy can jump into the same category as those with debilitating mental dysphoria from a young age, who have a diagnosis and have received counselling. These are the people for whom nearly everybody - including many women - were prepared to make accommodation. Now that 'trans' includes everybody from those with a diagnosis to those who feel like being a woman 2 days a week, and demanding access to women's spaces for all these candidates, it's not surprising there has been a pushback.

 

[The Crofted Crest]

Transgender woman convicted of rape will not serve sentence in women’s prison

A transgender woman convicted of rape will not be allowed to serve her sentence in a women’s prison. Isla Bryson, from Clydebank, West Dunbartonshire, committed the crimes against two women before she transitioned to female. A six-day trial at the High Court in Glasgow heard Bryson raped two women – one in Clydebank in 2016 and one in Drumchapel, Glasgow, in 2019. Read the full story here

 

[matticus]

people are who they say they are,

(cos I wanted to join the "pictures of popular TV shows" craze that the kidz are into here )

 

[multitool]

Your argument seems to be 'It's already happening so no point trying to stop it now'. Good job we don't apply that to everything else in life.

Not really true. The anti-self ID argument is that there will be a huge deluge of predatory men in women's spaces enabled by changes in the law. My argument is that if that were true the deluge would be happening now, because the those spaces are not policed on the basis of presenting a GRC certificate.

To put it another way, you are effectively arguing that predators, who could enter women's spaces now, choose not to. But suddenly they will start so doing because they can apply for a GRC.

The underlying point that you can't see is that for predators the possession of a GRC, or not having a GRC, makes no difference.

 

[multitool]

And...

In regards to trans women prisoners, it appears the prison service is doing what it should be doing, as established in case law. Housing TW prisoners in segregation in women's prisons whilst they conduct a risk assessment before deciding where to house them on a permanent basis.

Probably wouldn't get that detail if you get all you news from the Daily Mail.

 

[matticus]

In regards to trans women prisoners, it appears the prison service is doing what it should be doing, as established in case law. Housing TW prisoners in segregation in women's prisons whilst they conduct a risk assessment before deciding where to house them on a permanent basis.

Probably wouldn't get that detail if you get all you news from the Daily Mail.

"Bryson is being held in a segregation unit at the all-female jail while risk assessments are carried out. "

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...on-not-moving-trans-rapist-womens-prison.html

Look, I just had it open to read the Theatre section, okay? Don't all look at me like that!

 

[AuroraSaab]

Not really true. The anti-self ID argument is that there will be a huge deluge of predatory men in women's spaces enabled by changes in the law. My argument is that if that were true the deluge would be happening now, because the those spaces are not policed on the basis of presenting a GRC certificate.

The argument is it makes it easier because all you will need in Scotland is five quid and a utility bill. Then you are female in every legal aspect and the exemptions of the Equality Act, where companies and services are bothering to apply them, will not apply to you.

Do you honestly imagine that this week's double rapist wouldn't get a GRC for a fiver if it gave him access to a women's prison? Which it would if Sturgeon's law gets assent. And he wouldn't be barred from getting one because the ammendment to stop sex offenders getting a GRC was voted down by the SNP, Greens, and Labour. And potential employers can't even find out about his offences because it will be illegal to reveal his trans status and name change.

To put it another way, you are effectively arguing that predators, who could enter women's spaces now, choose not to. But suddenly they will start so doing because they can apply for a GRC.

It will increase the normalisation of men in women's spaces - they can just say 'I have a GRC' - noone can check if they have or haven't. Again, this is the 'They are going to rape you anyway' argument.

The underlying point that you can't see is that for predators the possession of a GRC, or not having a GRC, makes no difference.

'They are going to rape you anyway'. So why make it easier? And it's not just about sexual assault, it's about dignity and privacy.

Dodgy men train and invest their time for years to be priests, teachers, youth leaders, policemen, sports coaches, all in order to be around children and women. The idea that they won't get a GRC or just say 'I've got a GRC, I'm allowed in the women's changing rooms' is beyond naive.

It must be exhausting doing such mental gymnastics in order to kid yourself that there aren't pervy blokes out there who get a massive thrill out of being in women's spaces.

 

[multitool]

Which brings us back to other countries with Self ID.

No sudden influx of men pretending to have GRCs to get in women's spaces for prurient activities, nor any evidence of fake trans women bothering to register as legally female to do same.

 

[multitool]

"Bryson is being held in a segregation unit at the all-female jail while risk assessments are carried out. "

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...on-not-moving-trans-rapist-womens-prison.html

Look, I just had it open to read the Theatre section, okay? Don't all look at me like that!

So, even worse that quoting Daily Mail, AS didn't even bother to read it.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I did read it. Why not keep him in a male jail while assessed? It's only public outrage that's made them reconsider. Transwoman 6 foot 5' child molester Katie Dolatowski is already in Cornton Vale so the idea that they don't send male bodied offenders there due to risk is nonsense.
https://news.stv.tv/west-central/sc...man-katie-dolatowski-to-cornton-vale-stirling

Which brings us back to other countries with Self ID.

Well let's have a look at countries with self-id.

Remember that most self-id countries won't record trans prisoners as male so it's near impossible to find out where they are being housed in the first place. And countries like Denmark, NZ, etc have populations the size of Yorkshire so the numbers are small anyway.

Let's look at the US though, where you can track prisoners. And where self-id means you can go to the jail that matches your chosen gender identity in many states.

Transwoman allegedly rapes female cell mate
https://reduxx.info/trans-identified-male-accused-in-jailhouse-rape-of-female-cellmate/

Sex offender requests move to women's prison
https://reduxx.info/convicted-sex-o...o-womens-prison-claims-to-be-intersex-female/

Double murderer now recorded as 'female' and moved to a joint prison
https://reduxx.info/man-who-slaught...-now-marked-as-female-in-maine-prison-system/

That's just December and January.

In California alone, 342 men who self ID as women asked to transfer to women's jails in the first 6 months of 2022:

https://www.dailysignal.com/2022/06...-men-in-california-prisons-identify-as-women/

"Also as of May 23, a total of 342 biological male inmates who identified as women had requested to be transferred to a women’s prison. Of them, 39 were approved for transfer to a female institution, according to the corrections department. Another 14 were denied a transfer and 28 changed their minds about making the move, the agency said".

The idea that men won't abuse the system to gain advantage is simply ridiculous.

If you could easily self-ID as disabled to gain advantages, do you think people would do it?
If all you had to do to get a Motability car was present a utility bill, £5, and say you were disabled, do you think that might make fraud more or less likely?

 

[Rusty Nails]

The anti-self ID argument is that there will be a huge deluge of predatory men in women's spaces enabled by changes in the law.

Even a small deluge would cause problems.

 

[AuroraSaab]

One is too many. Perfectly possible to provide extra provision in terms of changing rooms, refuges, prisons, for transwomen without forcing women to accommodate them.

 

[multitool]

It's weird how your language does not reflect that of any women I know.

Let's take your very last statement "forcing women to accommodate them". For a start, TW in segregation units is not forcing anyone on anybody. Whether TW circulating freely in women's prison, post assessment, is "forcing women to accommodate them" depends on the women, and not you. How do you know they won't welcome them? After all, we have already seen throughout this thread that you mistakenly think you are the "voice of all women".

 

[jowwy]

It's weird how your language does not reflect that of any women I know.

Let's take your very last statement "forcing women to accommodate them". For a start, TW in segregation units is not forcing anyone on anybody. Whether TW circulating freely in women's prison, post assessment, is "forcing women to accommodate them" depends on the women, and not you. How do you know they won't welcome them? After all, we have already seen throughout this thread that you mistakenly think you are the "voice of all women".

If i wanted a thread to abuse shep id make my farking own…..keep your nose out

 

[multitool]

I'll do what I want, cheesedick.