Gender again. Sorry!

[multitool]

Yeah I get that 'misogyny' is the current attack line from you transphobes. And actually I haven't "constantly assured you" that I am not misogynistic. I haven't mentioned it. So, maybe you are confusing me with someone else you are arguing with somewhere online.
You people are actually very few in number, but very prolific.

Your problem is your actual posting history, because the angrier you get, the more the mask slips, and the more the hate leaks out.

 

[qigong chimp]

Shall we leave it there?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Simple (simplistic?) solution for a male rapist who wants to serve his sentence in a women's prison; penisectomy and castration. Job's a good'un. Any questions?

Still a male, penis or not. Still has same risk of male pattern violence. Will still make women uncomfortable. By this logic, you could chemically castrate child molesters and then let them get jobs in schools, couldn't you? Would that be a good idea?

 

[winjim]

Shall we leave it there?

Please.

 

[multitool]

You are wasted on cycling forums, Aurora. You could get a job tomorrow as a script writer for Chris Morris.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Yeah I get that 'misogyny' is the current attack line from you transphobes.
Your problem is your actual posting history, because the angrier you get, the more the mask slips, and the more the hate leaks out.

It's hard to fathom why else someone would be arguing for male rapists to be placed in a women's jail. I mean, there's very few people willing to put their name to that so good for you for being so determined to get those lads in there.

It's not hateful to want to maintain single sex spaces for women. I'm happy for people to read this thread, and of course the posts you and I make on other threads, and decide for themselves who's angry and hateful.

 

[Poacher]

Still a male, penis or not. Still has same risk of male pattern violence. Will still make women uncomfortable. By this logic, you could chemically castrate child molesters and then let them get jobs in schools, couldn't you? Would that be a good idea?

Who said anything about chemical castration? Or schools? I just thought of applying Occam's Poacher's rusty razor to one particular case. It might concentrate his mind a little.

 

[multitool]

It's hard to fathom why else someone would be arguing for male rapists to be placed in a women's jail. I mean, there's very few people willing to put their name to that so good for you for being so determined to get those lads in there.

There you go misrepresenting again. Your stock in trade when in a tight corner. Constant straw men.

 

[AndyRM]

Lol. The word is thrown about so much it's lost all meaning so it really doesn't bother me. I can guarantee that when it comes down to the details, every person on this forum will be considered a transphobe. The threshold is incredibly low.

I can guarantee you that wouldn't be the case.

I respect your views, and understand them, don't think you're transphobic.

But claiming all of us on here would be considered a transphobe? Bit of a stretch for me, which I think is a reasonable thing to say.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Do you think it is acceptable for lesbians to exclude transwomen as sexual partners on the basis that they have male bodies, and most of them keep their penises? The fact that they do exclude them is widely regarded as transphobic by many transactivists.

Do you think transwomen should be excluded from the women's category in sport? Even in just one sport? If you do, that's widely considered to be transphobic.

It's a very low threshold that transactivists have set for being a transphobe, Andy. You seem to understand women's concerns on this issue so I suspect you might find yourself regarded as such in some quarters, even though you obviously aren't.

 

[AndyRM]

Do you think it is acceptable for lesbians to exclude transwomen as sexual partners on the basis that they have male bodies, and most of them keep their penises? The fact that they do exclude them is widely regarded as transphobic by many transactivists.

Do you think transwomen should be excluded from the women's category in sport? Even in just one sport? If you do, that's widely considered to be transphobic.

It's a very low threshold that transactivists have set for being a transphobe, Andy. You seem to understand women's concerns on this issue so I suspect you might find yourself regarded as such in some quarters, even though you obviously aren't.

Personally, I think these are all subjects for debate, question and discussion.

They're all interesting, and important conversations which I don't think are easily reduced, though I understand why they are.

If someone was to call me transphobic, I would certainly disagree with them. I believe in sexual freedom, inclusivity as well as the difficulties presented by these things.

I think about the issue a lot, and as I said I respect your views on the subject and they've certainly made me think, which I appreciate.

There are no acceptable answers for everyone here. It's a minefield, where some voices will be raised, some will be quietened.

This is just a ramble now, but I guess my point is that if humans could just stop being awful to each other, we'd be alright.

 

[Unkraut]

You transphobes really are quite something.

Define 'transphobia'.

S'funny how you draw so much ire (and name calling) on this one but 'dear old unreconstructed duffers' and their views -
such as Unkers' for instance - are tolerated as just that - The dear old duffer.

Unreconstructed dear old duffer. Brilliant!!

Time for a 'parable'.

A man in a not very happy marriage takes a fancy to one of his undergraduate daughter's friends. Would like to ask her out. So:

He self identifies as a 22 year old bloke. That makes him 22 then doesn't it?

He self identifies as single. That's that sorted.

If the girl or her parents don't take kindly to his approaches, is this 'phobic'?

He is one of those characters who likes reenacting old Civil War battles at weekends. Puts on the uniform of Cromwell's army and has achieved the rank of Colonel. Takes it all very seriously.

If he bowles up to work in his civil war uniform (minus flintlock and musket) having decided to include this too in his self ID, can he expect his colleagues to simply accept this, and should they address him by his rank of Colonel? Should this be enshrined in law?

With any analogy there is always an element of disanalogy, but I don't think my example is too far removed from what transgenderism is. It is not that farfetched - many people try to escape the world by pretending to be something or someone they are not. Maybe it wouldn't matter if it didn't affect anyone else, but transgenderism clearly does - it can be detrimental to women.

You are not what you self ID as. Words and declarations in and of themselves have no power to change reality.

Someone like the bloke above would be considered to have deep-rooted psychiatric problems, wouldn't it be better to deal with them, rather than enabling someone to go into a fantasy world that may not actually deal with real cause of their mental distress? Put the marriage right, deal with the childhood abuse etc.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I think the demands of transactivism have eroded much of the goodwill that many women had towards people who genuinely felt uncomfortable with their sex, Andy. Lots of women were very 'live and let live' and accommodating until it got to stuff like gender clinics for kids, Laurel Hubbard, 'vulva owners', and 'They're saying what to lesbians?'.

That and the 'kill terfs' rhetoric, of course. In this respect transactivism repeatedly shoots itself in the foot. I'm a bit surprised you don't acknowledge the regressive and homophobic aspects of transactivism that equates male femininity with being a woman.

 

[icowden]

You are wasted on cycling forums, Aurora. You could get a job tomorrow as a script writer for Chris Morris.

Just an observation but there are two women (that I know of ) contributing to this thread. You constantly deride and try to silence them, tell them their opinions are worthless and that we should bask in your intellect.

Then you claim that we are using misogyny as an attack line.

Yeah I get that 'misogyny' is the current attack line from you transphobes. And actually I haven't "constantly assured you" that I am not misogynistic. I haven't mentioned it. So, maybe you are confusing me with someone else you are arguing with somewhere online.
You people are actually very few in number, but very prolific.

Do you own a mirror?

Your problem is your actual posting history, because the angrier you get, the more the mask slips, and the more the hate leaks out.

This from a man who changes his mask (avatar) on a daily basis?

Again - taking a step back and looking in the mirror may be worthwhile.

 

[AndyRM]

I think the demands of transactivism have eroded much of the goodwill that many women had towards people who genuinely felt uncomfortable with their sex, Andy. Lots of women were very 'live and let live' and accommodating until it got to stuff like gender clinics for kids, Laurel Hubbard, 'vulva owners', and 'They're saying what to lesbians?'.

That and the 'kill terfs' rhetoric, of course. In this respect transactivism repeatedly shoots itself in the foot. I'm a bit surprised you don't acknowledge the regressive and homophobic aspects of transactivism that equates male femininity with being a woman.

Again, and respectfully, I understand your opinions, though there are parts of them with which I disagree.

I think there will always be difficult aspects to this debate which can be tricky.

Does it come down to genitals? Or anatomy in general? I'm not so sure.

Is it about self-ID or anything along those lines? Again I'm not sure.