Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
- Start date
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AuroraSaab
Squire
Not important enough to trump sex as a meaningful category apparently as Prof Gamble says women's oppression is sex based and gender identity is an inner sense of self.
"Confusing the idea of gender identity and the reality of sex risks adverse health consequences and deeper and more insidious discrimination against women."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sm...en-top-researchers-argue-20220126-p59red.html
Good to see sensible, science based advice from medics in positions of responsibility.
UK Angling has clarified its policy with an amendment that means 'anglers who have transitioned from male to female will no longer be permitted to compete for England in the womens category but will continue to be eligible for the existing universal (open) category in both domestic and international events'. Another sport going down the sensible Open category route.
https://anglingtrust.net/2023/11/24...nglers,both domestic and international events.
"Confusing the idea of gender identity and the reality of sex risks adverse health consequences and deeper and more insidious discrimination against women."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sm...en-top-researchers-argue-20220126-p59red.html
Good to see sensible, science based advice from medics in positions of responsibility.
UK Angling has clarified its policy with an amendment that means 'anglers who have transitioned from male to female will no longer be permitted to compete for England in the womens category but will continue to be eligible for the existing universal (open) category in both domestic and international events'. Another sport going down the sensible Open category route.
https://anglingtrust.net/2023/11/24...nglers,both domestic and international events.
monkers
Legendary Member
Jenny Gamble says that gender identity is important. I agree with that. I'm not required to agree with everything else she says.
In fact I disagree with one aspect of the quote that I said I agreed with, but it was a linguistic matter, so I left it. I never call a baby 'it' as she does; to me it is dehumanising. From birth a baby has rights too.
If you think that I've ever said that 'gender identity trumps sex' then you'll need to find where I have said so.
icowden
Legendary Member
News article? I suspect that this story is rowlocks. NHS Electronic records *must* record Birth Sex (Gender) and should record Gender Identity. If it could not record birth sex (gender) then it would not be permitted to access the NHS Demographic Spine, Choose and Book, the new Medical Events system etc etc.
At best the story is that the software has gender labelled as gender identity and that has had to be fixed.
icowden
Legendary Member
It seems that the publicity around this story has brought out a few other things in the wash. For example "Francesca" is 30 and plays football with 16 year olds but has a history as a sex worker. He/she used to dress up a a school girl with a surprise under his skirt etc.
Turns out he/she might possibly not be trans but instead be a pervert (is that unfair or are you allowed to be both?).
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ty-schoolgirl-surprise-skirt-escort-site.html
As we are constantly told, this just doesn't happen, I'm sure it's all in her past and this daily hate article is just an attack piece with no justification and there should be no concerns about this lady playing football with young girls.
icowden
Legendary Member
In other news this tweet from Eddie Izzard has been doing the rounds again:-
https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1373118575221866497?s=20
With many pointing out that despite his desire to be some sort of martyr for the Trans cause, the Nazi's would have welcomed him with open arms. They were quite keen on straight blond men, and cross dressing was not something they had an issue with.
https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1373118575221866497?s=20
With many pointing out that despite his desire to be some sort of martyr for the Trans cause, the Nazi's would have welcomed him with open arms. They were quite keen on straight blond men, and cross dressing was not something they had an issue with.
AndyRM
Elder Goth
I don't have much time for Izzard due to his political stance on the Union, but I don't think the Nazi's would have been all that welcoming.
This is a decent read on the subject:
https://theconversation.com/histori...rgeted-trans-people-205622?xid=PS_smithsonian
monkers
Legendary Member
The material fact that should appear in a risk assessment is that a 30 year plays with 16 year olds.
There is a lot of moral judgemental stuff about sex work in there. Sex work is not illegal in the UK. The fact that sex workers pander to the desires and whims of their clients (mostly men) in order to get work should be no surprise. It would be interesting to get your input of what a 'pervert' actually is. An equally valid argument would be that you are terminally boring.
Unless the person says they are transgender, there is no basis on which to say they are. People often wear the clothes that are stereotypically the clothes of the opposite sex/gender and for all manner of reasons. Just attend any staging of the Rocky Horror Show, you'll find no end of chaps dressed in fishnets etc out for a fun evening with their partners.
AuroraSaab
Squire
There was no badge for transgender people in the death camps though and the Nazis themselves seemed to enjoy cross dressing quite a bit. It looks more like men were sent to the camps if they were judged to be homosexual, regardless of how they dressed. As Eddie is not same sex attracted and frequently dresses in what he calls boy mode I'm not sure he would have been high up the list for the Nazis to persecute, though they would have got round to him and other artists eventually as an extension of their campaign against what they called degenerate art.
monkers
Legendary Member
Some male-to-female transvestites were targeted under Paragraph 175 as part of the persecution of homosexuals in Nazi Germany; Germany's transvestite community had a recognized subcategory (referred to by Magnus Hirschfeld as early as the 1920s as "total transvestites" or "extreme transvestites") that would later be recognized more widely in medical literature as transsexual.[3][4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_Nazi_Germany
AndyRM
Elder Goth
Pretty much what's been reported in the Telegraph and the Times.
AuroraSaab
Squire
So we don't know if these German men - and they seem to all be men - were transgender or just enjoyed crossdressing then, do we?
This also seems to contradict your habit of transing dead people based on how they (on occasion) dressed.
monkers
Legendary Member
You are cross-threading and creating an anachronism in the process. The word 'transgender' did not exist in the Nazi period. I've already posted a link to the Nazi period on this thread.
With regards to the footballer (in another thread) in the current period, the word 'transgender' is being bandied around. Other than some wording in an advert for sex work designed to attract clients, I don't know if this person has ever taken any steps towards transition. Do you?
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AuroraSaab
Squire
Hang on. I thought it was enough to say 'I am a woman'? This idea that you now think they aren't transgender if they haven't taken any steps like drugs or surgery is completely at odds with what you've said previously.
They call themselves Francesca, wear stereotypical women's clothes, and demand to play football on the Womens team. Are they not a transwoman by every metric you've previously claimed?
It didn't exist in 1890's Paris but it didn't stop you transing female author Georges Sand, and then her lover Chopin as well.
They call themselves Francesca, wear stereotypical women's clothes, and demand to play football on the Womens team. Are they not a transwoman by every metric you've previously claimed?
It didn't exist in 1890's Paris but it didn't stop you transing female author Georges Sand, and then her lover Chopin as well.
