Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

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Being an unattractive woman, doesn't make you a man. Throughout this whole discussion all you've done is say that historical figures who didn't conform to stereotypes had the gender identity of the opposite sex. Not a very progressive view as that seems rather sexist. There's no 'trans' without stereotypes to measure people against.

 

[monkers]

Being an unattractive woman, doesn't make you a man. Throughout this whole discussion all you've done is say that historical figures who didn't conform to stereotypes had the gender identity of the opposite sex. Not a very progressive view as that seems rather sexist. There's no 'trans' without stereotypes to measure people against.

Oh do stop inventing more stuff. I've posted the links to the academics writing about it. The concepts of gender identity and trans people has been around for centuries in many countries and cultures. The point being made is that academics are looking to see how far back and to what extent it has existed.

Chopin who many already considered from reading his letters to friends was same sex attracted. Poland would have been a bad place to be at that time for a gay man. We know that Tchaikovsky was gay but obviously needed to have been very private about it. We music lovers will continue to listen to Chopin as we listen to Tchaikovsky.

You try hard to make much out of nothing.

I have a sex identity, a gender identity, and yet another for sexuality. I'm a female, a gay woman. You haven't figured out who you are; that's not everyone else's problem.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I have a sex identity, a gender identity, and yet another for sexuality. I'm a female, a gay woman. You haven't figured out who you are; that's not everyone else's problem.

Your sex isn't an identity any more than your eye colour is. I know that I'm female, whether I like it or not. It doesn't depend on other people's perceptions or need them to pretend. It doesn't require a piece of paper. It isn't measured by how far I adhere to society's stereotypes. Being male or female is an embodied experience. 80 billion different personalities in either a male or female body.

People can hold whatever beliefs they like about themselves but if those beliefs impinge on other people then it can be a problem.

 

[classic33]

People can hold whatever beliefs they like about themselves but if those beliefs impinge on other people then it can be a problem.

And yet you want others to accept your beliefs only. Theirs are irrelevant, in your mind.

 

[monkers]

Your sex isn't an identity any more than your eye colour is. I know that I'm female, whether I like it or not. It doesn't depend on other people's perceptions or need them to pretend. It doesn't require a piece of paper. It isn't measured by how far I adhere to society's stereotypes. Being male or female is an embodied experience. 80 billion different personalities in either a male or female body.

People can hold whatever beliefs they like about themselves but if those beliefs impinge on other people then it can be a problem.

Fair enough, but you don't know that you're a woman.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It doesn't require knowing you are one, it just requires being one. Whereas gender identity requires a conscious self to acknowledge its existence, just like being a Christian or being a Pisces.

 

[Deleted member 159]

And yet you want others to accept your beliefs only. Theirs are irrelevant, in your mind.

Trans can have whatever beliefs they want. What they can't do is impinged on anyone else's traditions, beliefs.

No entering women's toilets, safe spaces, sports.

Straight forward propositions for accommodating, what is a tiny proportion of people have been put forward. In sports the governing bodies have decided to have an open category. Toilets should have separate unisex facilities and everyone else can use all three or inline with their biological sex.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Fair enough, but you don't know that you're a woman.

What is a woman?

Explain what a woman is without using the word woman

 

[monkers]

It doesn't require knowing you are one, it just requires being one. Whereas gender identity requires a conscious self to acknowledge its existence, just like being a Christian or being a Pisces.

I see you prefer to believe in astrology rather than the actual scientists. Figures.

 

[monkers]

Your sex isn't an identity any more than your eye colour is. I know that I'm female, whether I like it or not. It doesn't depend on other people's perceptions or need them to pretend. It doesn't require a piece of paper. It isn't measured by how far I adhere to society's stereotypes. Being male or female is an embodied experience. 80 billion different personalities in either a male or female body.

People can hold whatever beliefs they like about themselves but if those beliefs impinge on other people then it can be a problem.

Remember that word you used earlier today 'balance'? Seems 'balance' has been extinguished as unsuitable for your purposes in less than a day.

 

[monkers]

What is a woman?

Explain what a woman is without using the word woman

Explain what a word salad is without using words.

 

[monkers]

What is a woman?

Explain what a woman is without using the word woman

Oh very well. A person who from their self-knowledge identifies themself with the expressions, mannerisms, and gender roles seen as typical of the female sex within their own culture.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Oh very well. A person who from their self-knowledge identifies themself with the expressions, mannerisms, and gender roles seen as typical of the female sex within their own culture.

So not a adult human female then

 

[monkers]

So not a adult human female then

No. Most usually (congruent people), but not always (incongruent people).

 

[AuroraSaab]

I see you prefer to believe in astrology rather than the actual scientists. Figures.

No, I don't because it's a subjective metaphysical belief, like God and gender identity.