Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

It didn't exist in 1890's Paris but it didn't stop you transing female author Georges Sand, and then her lover Chopin as well.

I didn't trans George Sand. There is some analysis by others. In one case there is the comment from the good friend Victor Hugo. On the other hand the record shows that Sand insisted on people using male pronouns to address her. The record also shows that her personal diaries which remain to this day show Sand addressing themself in male pronouns in their personal diary. This, it is said, shows that her persona was intimate to themself rather a matter of any kind of comfort or convenience.

Hector Berlioz, a close friend of Chopin and Sand left letters (in a period before words like 'transgender' were being used}, that the relationship was that Sand was the man in the relationship, and that Chopin was happy to adopt the role of being a woman.

My making mention of this in a thread, does not amount to me making a habit of transing dead people. Why do you need to invent this stuff?

 

[Ian H]

...Nazis themselves seemed to enjoy cross dressing quite a bit...

You're confusing Nazi Germany with the Weimar Republic.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...-nazis-targeted-transgender-people-180982931/

 

[AuroraSaab]

Hector Berlioz, a close friend of Chopin and Sand left letters (in a period before words like 'transgender' were being used, that the relationship was that Sand was the man in the relationship, and that Chopin was happy to adopt the role of being a woman.

She's a non conforming woman then, seen through sexist Victorian eyes. By this standard everybody who has referred to a woman as 'she wears the trousers in that relationship' is a transman then.

 

[monkers]

She's a non conforming woman then, seen through sexist Victorian eyes. By this standard everybody who has referred to a woman as 'she wears the trousers in that relationship' is a transman then.

The people in this question are not sexist Victorian Britains. They were all artists living in Paris.

 

[AuroraSaab]

They were a product of their environment and culture just like everyone else. The idea that they were somehow so enlightened that they stood outside the Victorian social conditioning about what roles women were expected to follow, just because they were artists, is ridiculous.

 

[monkers]

They were a product of their environment and culture just like everyone else. The idea that they were somehow so enlightened that they stood outside the Victorian social conditioning about what roles women were expected to follow, just because they were artists, is ridiculous.

Sigh. You are ridiculous. Artists were seen as 'Bohemians' by the establishment because they were seen as 'reformers'. Pretty often they were.

They certainly did not all strictly adhere to the prevailing moral codes.

https://artuk.org/discover/stories/art-for-reform-and-social-change-in-victorian-britain

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's quite a jump from 'they were a bit Bohemian' to interpreting your examples as clear evidence they all regarded Georges Sand as a man. Stop transing dead people. It's just plain rude and it erases the achievements of exceptional non conforming women and men like Sands and Chopin.

 

[monkers]

It's quite a jump from 'they were a bit Bohemian' to interpreting your examples as clear evidence they all regarded Georges Sand as a man. Stop transing dead people. It's just plain rude and it erases the achievements of exceptional non conforming women and men like Sands and Chopin.

I haven't transed anyone. Academics are questioning it, Stop shooting messengers.

It does appear from the evidence that George Sand considered herself a man. We might say 'transgender now' but no such word existed then.

Nobody other than bigots would stop playing Chopin because academics question his characteristics.

 

[CXRAndy]

Come to think of it, my late mother's dog must have been trans. It had some odd habits

 

[monkers]

Come to think of it, my late mother's dog must have been trans. It had some odd habits

Watch it, you'll have Aurora shouting out you...'stop transing dead dogs'.

 

[CXRAndy]

Academics are questioning it, Stop shooting messengers.

Yeah right.

They are now trying say an ancient Roman was trans

"Elagabalus"

 

[AuroraSaab]

It does appear from the evidence that George Sand considered herself a man.

Only if you feel compelled to clutch at the desperate straws of historical revisionism.

 

[monkers]

Yeah right.

They are now trying say an ancient Roman was trans

"Elagabalus"

Elagabalus apparently insisted on female pronouns. Believe it or not I wasn't around then - I was probably on holiday.

 

[monkers]

Only if you feel compelled to clutch at the desperate straws of historical revisionism.

I've already told you, Sand's personal diaries show that even in those, references to self were as male/man. That is not revisionism it's autobiography.

You don't like this account because you can not accept that when women say they have a gender identity it doesn't suit you to think so.

You'd better have the ClassicFM valve removed from your radio.

 

[AndyRM]

Yeah right.

They are now trying say an ancient Roman was trans

"Elagabalus"

There's been a lot of talk about Elagabalus over the years. Most of it educational and interesting about the time.

But you do you with your wee smileys and nonsense.