Gender again. Sorry!

[Ian H]

And neither should it. It captures the meaning of words so that we can use them properly.

A dictionary explains how words are used by people. If necessary it will show how the meaning has changed over time. Of course dictionaries are always out of date - they are essentially reactive.

 

[monkers]

Tell that to Dr Kathleen Stock or any other speaker who has been no-platformed or cancelled from a booking.

You will find it strange but Kathleen Stock does not agree with you.

As she says, that Oxford meeting where students didn't want to hear from her, was not a debate about sex and gender, but was concerned about the right to offend - no surprise to hear that she thinks that there is.

On another occasion Stock was 'disinvited'. Again not be 'trans-activists' but by GC women who disagree with her views.

Still Ian, never let the truth get in the way of suitable story, eh?

https://unherd.com/2023/06/the-oxford-kids-are-alright/

 

[Bromptonaut]

There are many things to get exercised about wrt women's safety but obsessing over trans women is, quite frankly, boneheaded and not a little creepy.

That. Exactly.

 

[AuroraSaab]

This is just the exceptionalism that you have demonstrated throughout this thread. ie. that there is a special subset of men to whom the ordinary conventions that we apply to other men should not apply. They should be exempt from being denied access to women's single sex spaces for no reason other than their say so.

It's also telling women what they should and shouldn't be concerned about and is the usual 'I don't care about x and y so nobody else should either'.

 

[CXRAndy]

The brakes have been put on gender hormone therapy for children, sports governing bodies are protecting women sports by banning trans from competing in their class

EHCR recommend adding biological to the wording to protect women.

General public now questioning access to women's facilities by trans

Stonewall dropped by th government.

I believe the general public are reading this trans ideology spot on

 

[monkers]

This is just the exceptionalism that you have demonstrated throughout this thread. ie. that there is a special subset of men to whom the ordinary conventions that we apply to other men should not apply. They should be exempt from being denied access to women's single sex spaces for no reason other than their say so.

It's also telling women what they should and shouldn't be concerned about and is the usual 'I don't care about x and y so nobody else should either'.

Set Theory is another area that you love to quote from but do not understand.

It is not the case that trans women are a subset of cis women, or vice versa

Male and female are both subsets of sex.

Men and women are both subsets of gender identity.

It is the case the cis women and trans women are both subsets of women. This special pleading and magical thinking of your's is that the word 'woman' can only permitted by you to have one narrow definition, and then only because of the ''common belief'' held by a subset of women with the common characteristic of paranoia.

 

[multitool]

It's getting a bit heavy and complicated.

Where's Andy and his memes?

 

[Bromptonaut]

This is just the exceptionalism that you have demonstrated throughout this thread. ie. that there is a special subset of men to whom the ordinary conventions that we apply to other men should not apply. They should be exempt from being denied access to women's single sex spaces for no reason other than their say so.

It's also telling women what they should and shouldn't be concerned about and is the usual 'I don't care about x and y so nobody else should either'.

Now there you are.

If I look down my telescope I see a subset of women to whom we should apply the same conventions as other women.

EDIT: As I already said at #123

There's an old lawyer's joke about property specialists deep in argument over a point who realise that they're arguing from different premises and I suspect that's where you and I are.

Differing paradigms.

 

[CXRAndy]

It's getting a bit heavy and complicated.

Where's Andy and his memes?

KISS

Monkers is just playing word games, trying to sidesteps basic biology.

'You can fool all people some of the time and some people all the time. But you can never fool all people all the time. '

Abraham Lincoln

 

[CXRAndy]

Men and women are both subsets of gender identity

It is the case the cis women and trans women are both subsets of women

Stop it, my sides are hurting

Women are adult human females,
Nothing more, nothing less.

Everyone else is in a pantomime

 

[icowden]

You will find it strange but Kathleen Stock does not agree with you.
https://unherd.com/2023/06/the-oxford-kids-are-alright/

Did you read the article? She cites multiple examples of people being deplatformed.

At both Cambridge and Oxford, I also had several enriching encounters with staunch defenders of my right to speak. A lot of these were with young gender-critical feminists, fired up by noticing the obvious inconsistencies and injustices in a supposedly “kind” worldview that tells women to put their own needs last. Some wanted me to sign their copies of my book. Others were keen to tell me their own stories of horrible social shunning for their beliefs.

 

[icowden]

What on earth makes you think this woman has a right to a platform?

What on earth makes you think that having been booked to speak at an event ignorant protestors should be allowed to stop that event or threaten the speaker?

Stock herself said: "Universities aren't places where students should just expect to hear their own thoughts reflected back at them. Arguments should be met by arguments and evidence by evidence, not intimidation or aggression".[56] She said that months previously, she had complained to the University of Sussex, alleging it had failed to protect her and to safeguard her academic freedom.[39]

This is the very reason that we should be defending Stock:-

After announcing her resignation from the university on 28 October 2021,[68] Stock gave a radio interview on Woman's Hour on 3 November.[20][69] She denied that she is transphobic and explained that her resignation followed attacks on her by colleagues who are opposed to her views and who foster an "extreme" response from their students: "instead of getting involved in arguing with me using reason, evidence – the traditional university methods – they tell their students in lectures that I pose a harm to trans students."[69]

Suppression of opinion and denial of discussion is usually the tool of a totalitarian government. Universities are supposed to challenge orthodoxy, challenge beliefs and to introduce students to critical thought. Not stuff cotton wool in their ears and repeat their echo chamber back at them.

 

[monkers]

KISS

Monkers is just playing word games, trying to sidesteps basic biology.

'You can fool all people some of the time and some people all the time. But you can never fool all people all the time. '

Abraham Lincoln

What do you mean by 'biology'. Again that word has various readings according to context. Do you mean:

evolutionary biology
anatomy
homology
legal definition
something else.

Because the single word 'biology' is different in each context.

These are not word games when you apply words in the most correct possible way. It's word games when you refuse to recognise words according to definition, context, and nuance.

I know you simple moronic brain can only manage a single strand. You are like a bald man with a single hair on his head carrying a comb. A comb is for managing hair, you have a hair on your head, therefore you need to own and carry a comb, when what you really need is a pair of scissors to snip it off. Are you done yet?

 

[Bromptonaut]

[

Stop it, my sides are hurting

Women are adult human females,
Nothing more, nothing less.

Everyone else is in a pantomime

Adult Human Female = person with birth certificate saying girl/female.

Glad we agree.

 

[AuroraSaab]

If I look down my telescope I see a subset of women to whom we should apply the same conventions as other women.

...... which is only possible by redefining what you are looking at.

It is the case the cis women and trans women are both subsets of women.

This is only possible by redefining what 'sex' means to a metaphysical definition.

This special pleading and magical thinking of your's is that the word 'woman' can only permitted by you to have one narrow definition, and then only because of the ''common belief'' held by a subset of women with the common characteristic of paranoia.

I know what all women share that allows us to put them into a meaningful category together. What do men who identify as women share with all women that means they should be included in the same category?

Adult Human Female = person with birth certificate saying girl/female.

What sex are you if your birth was never registered and you have no certificate? How do you know? Is there a way of finding out?