Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

It's data. It's from the Tavistock's own records. Good job Hannah Barnes isn't on here because I think you might have libelled her a little bit.

Who to believe? Award winning Newsnight journalist whose book is meticulously researched over a number of years, and up for the Baille-Gifford prize, or random Internet poster with a huge vested interest?

Explain.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I don't feel the need to explain any further than I've done before. Transactivists need the idea of 'trans children' to exist - as opposed to children with mental health issues - because it validates transgender adults.

You yourself have said gender is innate, so presumably every single child who ends up going through the Tavistock was genuinely transgender because, according to you, not one of them has a mental health issue. They just have a true, innate gender that needs affirming.

They need no exploratory therapy to see if their distress is caused by other factors. Which is completely at odds with what detransitioners say.

 

[monkers]

I don't feel the need to explain any further than I've done before. Transactivists need the idea of 'trans children' to exist - as opposed to children with mental health issues - because it validates transgender adults.

You yourself have said gender is innate, so presumably every single child who ends up going through the Tavistock was genuinely transgender because, according to you, not one of them has a mental health issue. They just have a true, innate gender that needs affirming.

They need no exploratory therapy to see if their distress is caused by other factors. Which is completely at odds with what detransitioners say.

No. Explain my 'huge vested interest'.

I have not said that no referred child had any associated mental health issue. Inevitably some will because there are children with mental health issues. But you are lying again aren't you.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's obvious drivel.

It's a meticulously researched book that raises questions you have no answer for.

In the UK there are about 1.8 million single parent families raising about 3.1 million children. 42% of them are not turning trans.

Nobody said they are. But dismissing trauma as a possible contributing factor to a feeling of body dysphoria is rather heartless of you.

A genuine researcher would not take coincidental data to declare causation - and this is what is implied. It's shabby.

No decent person would look at a huge list of relevant comorbidities and dismiss them as not requiring further investigation, especially when we are talking about children aged 10 to 18 and the alternative pathway is drugs and surgery.

 

[monkers]

It's a meticulously researched book that raises questions you have no answer for.

Nobody said they are. But dismissing trauma as a possible contributing factor to a feeling of body dysphoria is rather heartless of you.


No decent person would look at a huge list of relevant comorbidities and dismiss them as not requiring further investigation, especially when we are talking about children aged 10 to 18 and the alternative pathway is drugs and surgery.

That's the fourth allegation in order to defend this bigotry.

You've said ...

I have a 'huge vested interest' - yet to be explained.

I have denied that any child referred to Tavistock had a relevant mental health condition - if it's true quote it.

I have 'libelled' an author - criticism of any book is valid.

I am not a 'decent person'.

And this just in your last few posts.

And then there's you endless complaining because you've been called an idiot.

 

[AuroraSaab]

No. Explain my 'huge vested interest'.

I have not said that no referred child had any associated mental health issue. Inevitably some will because there are children with mental health issues. But you are lying again aren't you.

I don't owe you anything, I'm afraid. You have repeatedly said being transgender isn't a mental health issue and requires no counselling or psychological exploration.

You constantly flip flop and contradict yourself. Gender's innate ... oh no, now it develops in childhood. People are trans if they say they are .... until they're arrested, then they aren't. Children don't need counselling .... except sometimes they do but none of those issues can make them dysphoric. It's exhausting keeping up with the inconsistency.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It is not a mental health condition, not a sexually transmitted disease, or any other thing.

In 2020, we have a better understanding of the issues surrounding this condition, and they are not related to a mental health condition.

So not a 'mental health condition' and not 'a disorder'.

The leading team of experts on this have reported to the WHO that gender incongruence is not a psychiatric condition.

You've said it lots of times. Thing is, if you are going to stick with that then it means for every child going through the Tavistock not a single one of them was influenced in their body dysphoria by being autistic, having ocd, family trauma, being same sex attracted, or anything else. Because gender is innate and being trans isn't a mental health issue according to you.

Frankly it makes you look a bit heartless, and rather silly, when you dismiss all these other factors.

 

[classic33]

I don't owe you anything, I'm afraid. You have repeatedly said being transgender isn't a mental health issue and requires no counselling or psychological exploration.

You constantly flip flop and contradict yourself. Gender's innate ... oh no, now it develops in childhood. People are trans if they say they are .... until they're arrested, then they aren't. Children don't need counselling .... except sometimes they do but none of those issues can make them dysphoric. It's exhausting keeping up with the inconsistency.

It's harder keep up with you. A woman, who had a natural advantage, is no longer a woman. Her status as a female athlete no longer in doubt, as far as you're concerned. She's a man and always has been.

You don't respect the laws of other countries, yet frequently bring other countries into defend your side of the argument.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Adult women can be influenced by society's beauty standards and stereotypes of what being female should be like to the extent that they want huge breasts, but gender non forming girls aren't being influenced by the same pressures, which conversely lead them to want to remove theirs? It's illogical to suggest that this conditioning only kicks in later and that children are somehow immune from the pressure to be hyper feminine/masculine, yet adults aren't.

Bananas compared with Elephants. Again.

 

[classic33]

You've said it lots of times. Thing is, if you are going to stick with that then it means for every child going through the Tavistock not a single one of them was influenced in their body dysphoria by being autistic, having ocd, family trauma, being same sex attracted, or anything else. Because gender is innate and being trans isn't a mental health issue according to you.

Frankly it makes you look a bit heartless, and rather silly, when you dismiss all these other factors.

Nor do those that knowbetter than yourself.
From the land, which according to you, that uses medication simply to profit big pharma.
https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/5/13/17938120/transgender-people-mental-illness-health-care

 

[monkers]

You've said it lots of times. Thing is, if you are going to stick with that then it means for every child going through the Tavistock not a single one of them was influenced in their body dysphoria by being autistic, having ocd, family trauma, being same sex attracted, or anything else. Because gender is innate and being trans isn't a mental health issue according to you.

Frankly it makes you look a bit heartless, and rather silly, when you dismiss all these other factors.

So you add more nonsense. I maintained that gender identity is innate because the WHO say so. I am the one who understands that 'innate' does not necessarily mean 'from birth' though it can.

Now you are unable to understand that the list of comorbid conditions will have coincidences with every referral for any condition made to any hospital or clinic. Coincidental data is proof of nothing but coincidence.

What the data MUST demonstrate is that analysis will demonstrate causation. I am not saying there are no influential comorbid conditions, what I am saying there is no evidence in that book cover link. The WHO say that gender incongruence is not a psychiatric condition - who are you to say otherwise?

Bromptonaut has this mindset tagged right - it is a willful ignorance.

 

[monkers]

Nor do those that knowbetter than yourself.
From the land, which according to you, that uses medication simply to profit big pharma.
https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/5/13/17938120/transgender-people-mental-illness-health-care

I predict you are wasting your time because Aurora always knows better.

 

[AndyRM]

From 2006, You think the explosion of single parents since then has helped childhood mental illness
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/21/mentalhealth.childrensservices#:~:text=Around 13% of girls whose,living with an unmarried parent.

There are over 2.94 million single parent families in the United Kingdom as of 2022, compared with over three million five years earlier in 2015. Between 1996 and 2012 the number of single parent families in the UK increased by almost 600,000, with that number falling to the amount seen in the most recent year.

Compared to the mid twentieth century the rise of single parents has been catastrophic

You could clearly argue that the increase in single parents, has been the major contributory cause of childhood mental illness.

All because parents were too casual with their relationships, no commitment, no staying power.

Don't have children if you're not prepared to be married/stay together for life

You're a judgy little bitch, aren't you?

My children are wonderful, despite my divorce and Team Queerio status.

 

[AuroraSaab]

What the data MUST demonstrate is that analysis will demonstrate causation. I am not saying there are no influential comorbid conditions, what I am saying there is no evidence in that book cover link.

No, it doesn't. Any decent person would want to be sure that you can demonstrate that innate gender is the only possible cause of a child's distress before sending them down a medical and surgical pathway. Any decent assessment of a distressed child would seek to do so by exploring all possible factors in their distress - but your insistence on innate gender and it not being a mental illness means this isn't on the cards.

This is partly why the Tavistock is closing. The Cass report has recommended a move to a more holistic method of assessment, with a multi disciplinary team, and not just the affirmative method that you favour.

 

[monkers]

Still waiting for the explanation for the accusation of 'huge vested interest'. Let's have it.