Gender again. Sorry!

[Bromptonaut]

Not really. Scotland cannot enact legislation which is contrary to that enacted by Westminster. It cannot override the will of the UK Parliament. This makes it junior to Westminster. @CXRAndy suggests tertiary - which means third in order, which somehow makes it even more junior. Other available words include sub-ordinate, secondary. Whatever you want to call it, Scotland is not a country in it's own right, thus it remains in hock to Westminster and the people of Scotland vote for their representatives in Westminster.

If it is acting within its legislative competence, ie those matters not reserved to Westminster, it can do it's own thing. There are plenty of examples around tax, benefits, speed limits and blood alcohol for driving were Scotland has replaced law enacted at Westminster with its own. It is emphatically NOT in hock to Westminster though there have certainly been cases where Westminster has legislatively stamped on Scotland's toes - the Public Bodies Act 2012 for one.

Nobody, not even Alastair Jack, is arguing that the Gender Recognition Scotland Bill proposes anything outwith the legislative competence of Holyrood. The UK government's argument, and the legal device it has used to prevent Royal Assent are to do with Westminster's assertion that it will have an effect over the border in England.

The Outer House of the Court of Session has said, in effect, that in doing so Westminster has not acted outside its powers or in a way it cannot reasonably do. They've not been down on the detail - that's not how it works.

 

[monkers]

Criticism like that of Gaines was cast aside by Chalmers and other cyclists in a letter of support for Johnson and Williamson.

"We refuse to be falsely presented as victims in a manufactured controversy driven to further alienate and marginalize those most vulnerable within our community, in service of rampant and harmful anti-LGBTQ+ legislation," it read. "We speak for ourselves: inclusion makes our sport and community stronger. Everyone is welcome here. Trans women are women."

The letter received signatures from dozens of female cyclists, the report noted.

 

[icowden]

If it is acting within its legislative competence, ie those matters not reserved to Westminster, it can do it's own thing. There are plenty of examples around tax, benefits, speed limits and blood alcohol for driving were Scotland has replaced law enacted at Westminster with its own. It is emphatically NOT in hock to Westminster though there have certainly been cases where Westminster has legislatively stamped on Scotland's toes - the Public Bodies Act 2012 for one.

Yes, so Holyrood can do what it likes but Westminster can stop any Holyrood law it doesn't like. As I said, it is Junior to Westminster.

 

[icowden]

Branchfoot's been going on since 2021, and despite resignations of various party members hasn't turned up anything I've seen, though it may well do in the future.
The amount of dodgy backhanders and funding of the Conservatives throughout is much more of a concern to be honest.

Well of course. When it comes to embezzling and corruption, you really need a Tory MP to show you how it's done. I mean - you can't imagine Sunak with a dodgy motorhome, can you?

 

[Bromptonaut]

Yes, so Holyrood can do what it likes but Westminster can stop any Holyrood law it doesn't like. As I said, it is Junior to Westminster.

Not that simple but if you think it is dream on.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Chalmers said it was better to have tough competition. She had none, they just rode away left you floundering in third on your own.

Tennis legend Martina Navratilova added: 'More mediocre male bodies taking podium places from female athletes. And it stinks!!!!'

Riley Gaines
She is a traitor to ethical and fair sport. And she's a traitor to women

Absolutely spot on from Navratilova and Gaines

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-two-trans-athletes-left-standing-podium.html

 

[monkers]

Chalmers said it was better to have tough competition. She had none, they just rode away left you floundering in third on your own.

Tennis legend Martina Navratilova added: 'More mediocre male bodies taking podium places from female athletes. And it stinks!!!!'

Riley Gaines
She is a traitor to ethical and fair sport. And she's a traitor to women

Absolutely spot on from Navratilova and Gaines

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-two-trans-athletes-left-standing-podium.html

The women cyclists disagree. They were clear, they don't need virtue signallers portraying them as victims; they say that community inclusion trumps bigotry. Have you got there yet? The women think you are part of the problem, and they want you to stop.

 

[AndyRM]

Riley Gaines? Seems like a postergirl for this kind of stuff because she competed against a trans woman. Young, traditionally pretty, Conservative, I can see why they picked her.

Navratilova, fair enough I guess. Although I do find it a bit odd that someone who will no doubt have faced a fair amount of prejudice in her career has hardened/changed her stance so much in recent years.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Some women athletes are willing to put inclusion over fairness even if it means they are beaten into third place. So what? They still lost to someone with an unfair advantage and they can't speak for every other competitor.

If the guys who were behind Lance Armstrong in every race he was doping in were ok with it, that doesn't mean they weren't unfairly displaced. And it's not an argument for including dopers.

Riley Gaines wasn't picked. She spoke out because she's an athlete who lost out. You don't have to agree with her on everything to know she is right about excluding men from women's sports. The fact that Navratilova has hardened her stance is due to her investigating it more. Like lots of people she started from a position of inclusion until she realised how unfair it was.

 

[monkers]

Some women athletes are willing to put inclusion over fairness even if it means they are beaten into third place. So what? They still lost to someone with an unfair advantage and they can't speak for every other competitor.

If the guys who were behind Lance Armstrong in every race he was doping in were ok with it, that doesn't mean they weren't unfairly displaced. And it's not an argument for including dopers.

Riley Gaines wasn't picked. She spoke out because she's an athlete who lost out. You don't have to agree with her on everything to know she is right about excluding men from women's sports. The fact that Navratilova has hardened her stance is due to her investigating it more. Like lots of people she started from a position of inclusion until she realised how unfair it was.

The 'so what' argument is a substitute for reasoned opinion. You have an opinion - so farking what - other women are not interested in it.

These dozens of women cyclists signed a letter with the last words ...'trans women are women'. They didn't all whinge 'but I haven't got a gender identity, so nobody else has either'. Go on tell me 'but most women' or tell me 'but most lesbians are fed up'.

We have one virtue signalling man on here shouting stuff he reads in that well-known feminist paper the Daily Mail, and you not just pretending you know the hive mind of women, but also the hive mind of lesbians. I don't need you virtue signalling on behalf of lesbians, because we collectively welcome trans women as women, save for a small minority.

It looks like there is now push back from women against this bigotry - more women are saying they are fed up with it.

 

[Deleted member 159]

These dozens of women cyclists signed a letter

Sceptical if it was written. Would need to see evidence of this mystery letter.

A bit like the 'call to arms' from Kathleen Stock

🤔

 

[Deleted member 159]

more women are saying they are fed up with it.

This is true, more women don't want males in their sports for starters

 

[AndyRM]

Some women athletes are willing to put inclusion over fairness even if it means they are beaten into third place. So what? They still lost to someone with an unfair advantage and they can't speak for every other competitor.

If the guys who were behind Lance Armstrong in every race he was doping in were ok with it, that doesn't mean they weren't unfairly displaced. And it's not an argument for including dopers.

Riley Gaines wasn't picked. She spoke out because she's an athlete who lost out. You don't have to agree with her on everything to know she is right about excluding men from women's sports. The fact that Navratilova has hardened her stance is due to her investigating it more. Like lots of people she started from a position of inclusion until she realised how unfair it was.

Lost out on what, exactly? Seems like she tied for fifth with a trans athlete and then went on to speak out at numerous conservative events. If that's not being picked I don't know what is.

A year after Navratilova said this:

"But for now, I think we need to include as many transgender athletes as possible within elite sports, while keeping it as level a playing field as possible. Look, society has changed so much. Things evolve, things change and maybe I need to evolve, I need to change. The rules certainly need to evolve. If you don't adapt, you've got problems. And so we'll just keep adapting and try to find a happy way forward."

She supported a law banning trans athletes in Idaho. That's a pretty rapid turnaround, doesn't strike me as a particularly happy way forward and makes me think she had her mind made up already.

But we've been here before, and nauseum, so hey ho.

 

[AndyRM]

Sceptical if it was written. Would need to see evidence of this mystery letter.

A bit like the 'call to arms' from Kathleen Stock

🤔

You're not taking the Daily Mail at it's word? I for one am shooketh.

 

[monkers]

Sceptical if it was written. Would need to see evidence of this mystery letter.

A bit like the 'call to arms' from Kathleen Stock

🤔

Funny how you and Aurora are puzzled that the contents of my email inbox are not published on the internet.

Chalmer's critics can't stop talking about the fact that she is a lesbian woman and has pro-choice opinions - apparently they serve to erase her own opinions about how she enjoys her cycling.