monkers
Legendary Member
To be clear, I was making reply to IanC. I was not replying to yourself, or anyone in the thread who has used the word 'Nazi'. I'm unsure why you think this is the case or why I might be interested.
Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
- Start date
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To be clear, I was making reply to IanC. I was not replying to yourself, or anyone in the thread who has used the word 'Nazi'. I'm unsure why you think this is the case or why I might be interested.
AuroraSaab
Squire
Perhaps it would be useful if you registered under a new poster name then. Otherwise we might think it's just Monkers posting all the time.
monkers
Legendary Member
It had been made clear. You might also detect some change of style and read that I was expressing a point of a view from someone who has a trans history. Also you might know that monkers is not a 'lefty lawyer'.
You seem overtly aggressive and angry. May I ask how I have offended you?
AuroraSaab
Squire
Simply pointing out that that while some on one side moan about lefty lawyers plenty on the other side moan about gender critical views being aligned with Nazis. Very little evidence for either allegation.
monkers
Legendary Member
I feel sure it must make sense to you, but I am unable to follow. Let's agree to leave it there.
icowden
Legendary Member
To get back on track, I'd still be interested to hear your perspective as to whether there should be any safeguards or boundaries in place between transwomen and biological women, and if not how we stop abuse of that freedom by biological men.
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
As I keep saying you first need to show that is a real risk and quantify it as to how/where/when. Only with that information can you develop mitigations other than those advocated by AS and her cohort.
AuroraSaab
Squire
There's no evidence that transwomen offend at a lower rate than other men.
You could apply your argument to other groups of men. Blind men, gay men, men in wheelchairs. Should they be given the access to women's single sex spaces that transactivists demand for transwomen? If not, why not?
Nobody thinks 11 year old boys are likely to be sex offenders. Do you think all 11 year old boys and girls should change together for PE and swimming? Why not? It's not just about safety is it?
The onus is on you to show why some men are special, not for women to have to endlessly explain why there are no special groups of men.
You could apply your argument to other groups of men. Blind men, gay men, men in wheelchairs. Should they be given the access to women's single sex spaces that transactivists demand for transwomen? If not, why not?
Nobody thinks 11 year old boys are likely to be sex offenders. Do you think all 11 year old boys and girls should change together for PE and swimming? Why not? It's not just about safety is it?
The onus is on you to show why some men are special, not for women to have to endlessly explain why there are no special groups of men.
monkers
Legendary Member
N here Aurora.
I'm afraid you have the etiquette of debate / legal procedure upside down. When one is calling for change(s) the burden of responsibility becomes your own to prove harms. Otherwise a null argument is declared.
AuroraSaab
Squire
The harms are already proven. Men are statistically dangerous to girls and women in a way that other women are not. Women feel uncomfortable with men present in certain situations and services (and vice versa of course).
You need to prove why some men are to be exempt from exclusion when others aren't. Otherwise you're really just arguing for everything - sports, prisons, refuges, changing rooms - to be mixed sex. I mean, you could argue for that if you wish but we all know the common sense reasons why that would be a non starter. Why are some men special but others aren't? 'Because they say so' isn't a good enough answer.
You need to prove why some men are to be exempt from exclusion when others aren't. Otherwise you're really just arguing for everything - sports, prisons, refuges, changing rooms - to be mixed sex. I mean, you could argue for that if you wish but we all know the common sense reasons why that would be a non starter. Why are some men special but others aren't? 'Because they say so' isn't a good enough answer.
monkers
Legendary Member
Hi Ian - (Again this is N replying to you).
I'm sorry there is no brief answer to this, as the question is so wide ranging. I'd also need your understanding of what a trans woman is, and the rights she holds before attempting an answer.
I also have to say that I have no wish to be drawn into protracted discussion as I am already seeing signs that not all here will engage in reasoned discussion.
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monkers
Legendary Member
This is not correct analysis. I can assure you this would not stand up in any court in the form you present it. N.
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
N, your contributions to this are incredibly valuable.
