classic33
Senior Member
And that comes into second place after the quoted post.
Here on News, Current Affairs and Politics, as well as Cycle Chat.
Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
- Start date
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Here on News, Current Affairs and Politics, as well as Cycle Chat.
monkers
Legendary Member
Joint motive is not required for joint enterprise. Neo Nazis do not have to be fans of feminism etc; they just need the one similar ideology.
spen666
Active Member
Agreed, but is there any evidence anyone has changed views.
The thread simply reads, like all long threads, people with entrenched view dogmatically repeated those views and opposing anyone who does not agree
icowden
Legendary Member
Not entirely, but I'd say that mine have shifted since the start of the thread. What that says about me, I'm not sure.
icowden
Legendary Member
I suspect that we would agree that this is a bit all things with 4 legs are cows, and taps into my personal perception that there are people who are genuinely trans such as yourself, and then those who aren't but have a sexual interest in appearing as such, who tend to be the group categorised as perverts and paedos.
Hence my previous question about your perception of the concept of trans and whether you also feel that there are "undesirable" groups somewhat jumping on the back of it as a concept and where you feel lines should be drawn - if any.
Duly noted. By me anyway :-)
AndyRM
Elder Goth
Yeah, I'd say I feel the same way, my opinions have probably changed the most about sport.
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...olice-quickly-ruled-out-transphobia-as-motive
Never miss the opportunity to abuse a tragedy right? disgusting
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
Very similar off whats was left of the KKK rally for Obama instead of Hillary Clinton at the time because they thought a women in power was a bigger issue than a black man. They obviously disliked both.
having said that above doesn't disprove or prove an agenda off calling everything that doesn't agree with the narrative either nazi's or similar.
This forum is one of the few place where this discussion actually happens in a more or less mature way.
Bromptonaut
Rohan Man
- Location
- Bugbrooke, Northants
I don't think it's yet 'case closed' on Transphobia there whatever the police say. UK police have long form for playing down race as a factor in crime and I'm not yet persuaded that the same thing isn't in play here.
As Helen Pidd's Guardian piece says we've not yet got to sentencing and won't until February. If Yip J says transphobia was an aggravating facto then I don't think it can be eliminated as part of the equation.
monkers
Legendary Member
N here Dutchguy.
The police did not need to establish a motive such as transphobia. Motive is very useful for the purposes of detection of a suspect. In this case the suspects were quickly identified without motive. Motive was not necessary to take the case to the next stage, one of reporting to the CPS. Likewise, neither the CPS or the prosecution counsel would need to establish motive for the purposes of the trial.
The hate aggravation element of the crime is not to be determined by the jury. Therefore 'hate aggravation did not need to be an adjunct to the principal crime on the charge sheet.
For the purposes of this trial, it is a matter from Mrs Justice Amanda Yip to determine whether hate aggravation is a sentencing factor. We will learn of her thoughts on 2nd February.
Among the thousands of messages between the two, some of the messages did include transphobic messaging. I will say that I believe this is the evidence that Justice Yip must weigh.
I hope you find the above useful.
icowden
Legendary Member
What on earth are you on about?
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
Along with the ''kill lists'' but killers had it does sounds more likely that it are two very sick young perons. Also considering the carefull wording chosen by the police officer. (it doesn't deny transphobia but does not see it as primary motive which could suggest they talked about a number off targets for example)
Yeah but that's always the point, completely ruled out is with individuals like this impossible so it gets an mention and in February the headlines will feature it was all because she was trans..
Which is the convenient answer, the inconvenient answer is whilst no doubt they would have transpobic comments, she was more likely targeted because she was the easiest victim. And that answer is the most inconvenient because it shows the current approach doesn't work, it's battling the symptoms instead of the disease.
Yes as my response above to a other poster and additionally ''transphobic messaging'' isn't the same as ''transgender hate crime'' unless those ''kill list'' consist out of only transgenders persons for they fact they where being transgender persons it's more likely it where to very warped individuals who might also said transphobic things but that is something else than that being the primarily motive.
Ian H
Guru
So you're saying that if transphobia isn't the only motive it doesn't count.
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
Creative spin, no i did not say or wanted to say that. i say actually what i write.
Ian H
Guru
I'm afraid your 'creative' use of language makes it difficult to discern your exact meaning.
