Gender again. Sorry!

[AndyRM]

The irony of Russia leading the charge on "competing on even grounds" though...

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Isn’t the nonsense the part that talks about male brains having "a large and consistent advantage over women in spatial ability, on which chess relies to a large extent"?

Well it might be, if you have the evidence let's have link. @newfhouse Vs Fide? Who's best placed to pronounce on chess?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Isn’t the nonsense the part that talks about male brains having "a large and consistent advantage over women in spatial ability, on which chess relies to a large extent"?

The 'nonsense' comment wasn't about the article, it was a response to my comment. The BBC decided not to explain the main reason why there are some chess comps exclusively for women, instead only mentioning the less evidenced biological argument. Personally I don't think there's enough research to support the spatial ability advantage but plenty to support the other reasons why women and girls occasionally need separate comps.

 

[newfhouse]

Well it might be, if you have the evidence let's have link. @newfhouse Vs Fide? Who's best placed to pronounce on chess?

I don’t know for sure either way, and opinion is so divided that I expect Fide could employ experts to argue either way. My puzzlement is that, I think, it is Aurora that has argued against the idea of sexed brains.

Even the link provided says “evidence to support this is mixed, and no single trait (other than practice) strongly predicts success among the top-rated players".

 

[newfhouse]

The 'nonsense' comment wasn't about the article, it was a response to my comment. The BBC decided not to explain the main reason why there are some chess comps exclusively for women, instead only mentioning the less evidenced biological argument. Personally I don't think there's enough research to support the spatial ability advantage but plenty to support the other reasons why women and girls occasionally need separate comps.

Our replies crossed. I think we agree about the lack of evidence.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Neuroscientists like Gina Rippon have argued that the differences in spatial awareness are more the result of culture than biology. Boys are better at certain computer games not because of better innate spatial awareness but because they play them a lot. When you get girls to play them a lot, their spatial awareness catches up.

I don't believe in sexed brains as such and there is more research to be done on whether some small differences in human brain activity in scans are indicative of male/female differences in general, or even whether they are innate or cultural. Rippon was a sexed brain believer initially until she looked at the research in detail.

Edited for spelling.

 

[AndyRM]

Same reason they have scholarships and placements aimed just at women or just at ethnic minorities in other areas in which they are underrepresented, like science. It's to provide opportunities and raise the profile of Women's Chess. This is helped by preserving the Women's comps just for women, though many comps are Open/Mixed.

Didn't you go on a course that was exclusively for a particular minority group of would be comedians? The reason for it being just for that demographic wasn't because they aren't as funny as everyone else and can't compete, was it? It was to provide opportunities and a safe space. Perfectly good reasons.

On the comedy thing. It wasn't exclusive by any means.

Your second sentence makes no sense, you've only got to look at the popularity of Team Queerio entertainers over the years to realise that.

 

[AuroraSaab]

That's my point. Presumably the course aimed specifically at that demographic was solely to give gay would-be writers/performers a space away from non gay performers so they would feel more comfortable talking about their shared experiences. I think it's perfectly acceptable that different groups have stuff just for them, whether it's to address historical imbalances or just because they want to.

 

[AndyRM]

That's my point. Presumably the course aimed specifically at that demographic was solely to give gay would-be writers/performers a space away from non gay performers so they would feel more comfortable talking about their shared experiences. I think it's perfectly acceptable that different groups have stuff just for them, whether it's to address historical imbalances or just because they want to.

My point is that it wasn't aimed specifically at any demographic. But it's nothing to do with anything to be honest, I don't know why you brought it back up.

 

[AuroraSaab]

When you first mentioned it you yourself called it a 'queer comedy course', which suggested it was aimed at a certain demographic. My point is that it's acceptable to exclude other groups when justified, whether it's recreational writing or chess. Your course would be an example.

 

[monkers]

Isn’t the nonsense the part that talks about male brains having "a large and consistent advantage over women in spatial ability, on which chess relies to a large extent"?

Aurora has rather conveniently forgotten her claims that there is no such thing as sexed or gendered brains. But here is she supporting those who are banning people due to them have a superiorly sexed / gendered brain. One day the penny might drop.

 

[AndyRM]

When you first mentioned it you yourself called it a 'queer comedy course', which suggested it was aimed at a certain demographic. My point is that it's acceptable to exclude other groups when justified, whether it's recreational writing or chess. Your course would be an example.

Nobody was excluded from the course I was on.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Aurora has rather conveniently forgotten her claims that there is no such thing as sexed or gendered brains. But here is she supporting those who are banning people due to them have a superiorly sexed / gendered brain. One day the penny might drop.

I've literally just said it above that I don't believe there is evidence for gendered brains. I support exclusion of males from the Womens category in chess, and in pool, and in fishing, because these categories are intended to provide opportunities for women where there has historically been low participation and to raise the profile of the Womens game/sport. Which is reason enough in itself and nothing to do with male brains allegedly being better at chess.

Nobody is banned from anything. They are being asked to compete in the appropriate category.

 

[CXRAndy]

More Tavistock travesty

70 children under the age of five were sent their for treatment

Which sick parents would do that to their own children, let alone anyone else's child ?

 

[newfhouse]

Nobody is banned from anything. They are being asked to compete in the appropriate category.

Fide have said they will revoke any titles won by players who they believe competed in the “wrong” category, even if that was permitted under the rules in place at the time. And guess what?

There were no occasions when that happened so it indicates that this is less about fairness or encouraging more women to compete in chess than politics.